by Joseph DeMaio, ©2026

(Aug. 22, 2026) — INTRODUCTION

25-365 Trump v. Barbara (06/30/2026)

The recent SCOTUS decision in Trump v. Barbara – holding, among other things, that if born here on U.S. soil, the child of an illegal alien or a foreigner unlawfully present here is nonetheless a U.S. citizen – continues to produce fallout.  While technically not radioactive, the fallout is nonetheless unhealthy to the continued wellbeing of the Republic.  If you doubt that, just read the dissenting opinions of Justices Thomas and Alito and the partial dissent of Justice Kavanaugh.

Your humble servant has addressed the decision and the shortcomings of the majority opinion here.  The following offering will take a slightly “deeper dive” into the potential impact of the decision on future scholarship and analysis of the relationship between a “citizen” for 14th Amendment purposes, post-Barbara, and a “natural born Citizen” (“nbC”) as understood and adopted by the Founders in Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 of the Constitution itself, the “Presidential Eligibility Clause.”

While the Barbara decision addresses who may constitute a U.S. “citizen” under the 14th Amendment, it is a long way from being determinative of what the Founders considered to be an “nbC” when the Constitution was drafted, adopted and ratified “back in the day.”  Stated otherwise, while the 14th Amendment “citizen” and Eligibility Clause nbC issues are different, the two concepts are not totally unrelated. The Barbara majority opinion, erroneously focusing on the Court’s prior flawed decision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark (read the dissenting opinion of Chief Justice Fuller and concurring dissent of Associate Justice Harlan) ruled that the citizenship principle of jus soli (citizenship determined by the soil or place of birth) was what the Framers of the Fourteenth Amendment intended when using the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States].”  In so ruling, the Court rejected any role for the citizenship principles of jus sanguinis (citizenship by parental bloodline or descent),

The fallout from the ruling in Barbara, while facially affecting only the “citizenship” analysis for persons under the 14th Amendment, will undoubtedly be leveraged by those insisting that merely if one is a “citizen at/by/from birth” under jus soli principles, with no other qualifications, such will suffice to deem one an nbC for presidential eligibility purposes. 

Respectfully, your humble servant begs to differ. 

LEGAL ANALYSIS

Apart from the fact that the 14th Amendment – the sole issue before SCOTUS in its Barbara decision – was not in existence in 1787, it is beyond dispute that one of the primary – if not the sole – concerns of the Founders when drafting Art. 2, § 1, Cl. 5 of the Constitution, the nbC presidential Eligibility Clause, was to shield the office of the “Chief Magistrate,” eventually to become the Presidency, from both the actuality as well as the potential for the insinuation into it of “foreign influence.”  Whether or not that remains a legitimate concern in 2026 – as opposed to 1787 – is a different question: when the Constitution was drafted, adopted and eventually ratified to become operational, that was their original concern.  If that is to change, a constitutional amendment is required.

Your servant has also addressed the nbC issue in the context of a law review article published in 2015 titled “On the Meaning of Natural Born Citizen.” The article (addressed and critiqued here, here and here) was co-authored by two well-credentialed former Justice Department Solicitors General, Paul Clement (Solicitor General 2005-2008 under President George W. Bush) and Neal Katyal (Acting Solicitor General, 2010-2011 under President Obama).  That article posited that an nbC was “a citizen at birth, with no need to go through a later naturalization proceeding.” 

The article rejected – dismissively – any need for birth on U.S, soil, calling Senator Ted Cruz’s birth in Alberta, Calgary, Canada a purportedly irrelevant “happenstance” rather than an eligibility disqualifier. Their definition of an nbC additionally ignored dual parental U.S. citizenship altogether, claiming that the U.S. citizenship of the senator’s mother alone sufficed for nbC purposes, the senator’s father being a Cuban national at his birth.  So much for the “place of birth alone” or “jus soli prevails” principle.  The “dual parent” citizenship issue was disregarded, except with reference to the 1790 Naturalization Act (1 Stat. 103), which was repealed less than five years after its enactment by the 1795 Naturalization Act (1 Stat. 414).

But I digress.

The shortcomings of the law review article by Messrs. Clement and Katyal aside, in another law review article two years later (2017) by Fordham University Law School Professor Thomas Lee, the nbC conundrum is again examined, but in that article without the advocacy overtones supporting Senator Cruz’s purported eligibility found in the Clement/Katyal article.

Interestingly, after a detailed examination of the historical backdrop of the nbC clause, Professor Lee arrives at the conclusion that the Founders relied on both the jus soli and jus sanguinis doctrines when fashioning their nbC restrictions.  Indeed, he states in his conclusion: “My findings on the original meaning of the Natural Born Citizen Clause reveal that it was not grounded exclusively on jus soli or jus sanguinis, but rather incorporated both natural law principles.” (Emphasis added) The significance of Professor Lee’s conclusion lies in its recognition of the “original meaning” of the term (i.e., as understood and adopted by the Founders in 1787 rather than as postulated by well-credentialed lawyers in 2015…, or even 2026 or subsequent).

Moreover, his conclusion that the Founders likely relied on both jus soli and jus sanguinis principles when selecting the nbC barrier to foreign influence makes perfect sense, given the Founders’ desire to preclude, rather than simply impede or frustrate foreign influence.  Serendipitously, that “blended” doctrinal approach to defining what the Founders (including, parenthetically, John Jay when “hinting” to George Washington that the presidency be restricted to a “natural born Citizen”) was already available in Book 1, Ch. 19, § 212 of Emer de Vattel’s treatise, The Law of Nations, a resource well-known to and relied upon by the Founders. 

As articulated by Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story in his authoritative treatise “Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States” (§ 1473: “It is indispensable, too, that the president should be a natural born citizen of the United States; or a citizen [of the United States] at the [time of the] [A]doption of the constitution, and for fourteen years before his election. This permission of a naturalized citizen to become president [i.e., the “citizen-grandfather clause] is an exception from the great fundamental policy of all governments, to exclude foreign influence from their executive councils and duties. It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honours in their adopted country. A positive exclusion of them from the office would have been unjust to their merits, and painful to their sensibilities. But the general propriety of the exclusion of foreigners, in common cases, will scarcely be doubted by any sound statesman. It cuts off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interposes a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections, which have inflicted the most serious evils upon the elective monarchies of Europe. Germany, Poland, and even the pontificate of Rome, are sad, but instructive examples of the enduring mischiefs arising from this source.” (Emphasis added)

Accordingly, Justice Story’s observation validates two things.  First, it confirms that, at least in his view, the “Citizen at the time of the Adoption of the Constitution” exception from the nbC restriction was a “naturalized” citizen, and not a “citizen at/by/from birth.”  Second, it confirms that the Founders’ intent was to “exclude” foreigners from the office, not merely “restrict them under certain undefined circumstances” or permit “some” or a “few” opportunities or chances for “ambitious foreigners” to enter or occupy the office.

U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice Joseph H. Story in 1844 (public domain)

Justice Story’s observations also mirror precisely the sentiments expressed in two of the more important documents informing the Founders’ intent in adopting the nbC restriction into the Constitution, i.e., (1) the July 25, 1787 “hint” letter written by Founder John Jay to the Chair of the Constitutional Convention, George Washington, already noted, and (2) the Mar. 12, 1788 Federalist 68 article authored by Founder Alexander Hamilton under the pseudonym “Publius.” 

The “hint” letter, of course, had the goal of persuading General Washington to support and advocate to the Constitutional Convention Delegates the strongest barrier to the potential for foreign influence insinuating itself into the presidency, i.e., the “commonly understood” impediment of the nbC restriction.  This happened when the Delegates rejected the Madison-Pinckney “citizen” amendment proposed on Aug. 22, 1787 and instead adopted the “natural born Citizen” substitute amendment offered and recommended by the Committee on Postponed Matters on Sept. 4, 1787.  Moreover, Hamilton’s Federalist 68 article (untitled) echoed the same objective of persuading the voters of New York – and those of any other state happening to see the Federalist collection – to ratify the Constitution in order to preclude, among other things, the attempt by foreigners to “gain an improper ascendant in our councils … by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the union.” (Emphasis added) This is what the nbC Eligibility Clause seeks to prevent. 

Indeed, because each and all of the first seven presidents – from Washington to Jackson – had been “born in a foreign land,” viz., in one of the Colonial States of British America prior to July 4, 1776, in the absence of the citizen-grandfather exception from the robust nbC restrictions as then intended and understood by the Founders, none of them could have constitutionally served as President. 

The first “home grown” president born in the United States of America was Martin Van Buren in 1837, born to Abraham Van Buren and Maria Hoes Van Alen, both of whom were citizens of the British Colonial State of New York in 1776 when, by operation of the Declaration of Independence, they both became naturalized U.S. citizens.  When Martin Van Buren was born in 1782 in Kinderhook, New York, United States of America, to U.S. citizen parents, he therefore fit precisely the nbC template created and adopted by the Founders without the need for reliance on or reference to the citizen-grandfather clause, as he was not yet born “at the time of the Adoption of [the] Constitution.”

Professor Lee’s blended “jus soli/jus sanguinis” conclusion as to the Founders’ original intent is entirely consistent with another principle espoused by E. de Vattel: § 216 of his treatise, providing in part that as to children born “at sea,” “… naturally, it is our extraction, not the place of our birth, that gives us rights.” (Emphasis added).  A more succinct and direct validation of the jus sanguinis principle would be difficult to construct.

All of the foregoing points but in one direction: the Founders intended that an nbC for their purposes in their new Constitution meant a person born here to parents both of whom were already U.S. citizens.  It was not enough for only one parent to be a U.S. citizen: both parents needed to be citizens.

In addition, as noted by Professor Lee in his review article, there is nothing inconsistent or internally conflicted with positing that, in seeking the highest practical barrier to foreign influence invading the presidency, the Founders selected the blended jus soli and jus sanguinis doctrines embodied in the de Vattel § 212 definition of a natural born citizen. 

Stated otherwise: since the Constitution was being written, essentially, on a tabula rasa, what person or nation possessed the authority to dictate otherwise?  The Congressional Research Service was not in existence in 1787; Messrs. Clement and Katyal had not yet published their “authoritative” law review article; and the decision in Trump v. Barbara was some 240 years in the future.  If the “scholars” and “experts” want a different result than what the empirical historical facts confirm or by anecdotal inference establish, they should proceed with an amendment to the Constitution altering (or, as some would favor eliminating) the nbC restriction.  But they err badly when they contend that “up” means “down” (unless you are in orbit or traveling in space) or that the word “penalty” actually means “tax” or that Emer de Vattel was either unknown or irrelevant to the Founders.  Those contentions give new meaning to the term “fatuous.”  

And finally, the contention by Messrs. Clement and Katyal that the nbC concept of the 1790 Naturalization Act has “remained constant” – presumably meaning unchanged since 1790 (“The proviso in the Naturalization Act of 1790 underscores that while the concept of ‘natural born Citizen’ has remained constant and plainly includes someone who is a citizen from birth by descent [again, so much for the “jus soli alone claim] without the need to undergo naturalization proceedings, the details of which individuals born abroad to a citizen parent qualify as citizens from birth have changed….” – is demonstrably and manifestly wrong.

First, the 1790 Act contains two provisos, neither of which relate to the issue of the need for both parents to be U.S. citizens at the time of their child’s birth, at least as the Founders understood the term to mean in 1787.  Second, any “concept” that a child born outside the geographic limits of the United States, if born to U.S. citizen parents, was “considered” to be a “natural born Citizen” evaporated when the 1790 law (1 Stat. 103) was repealed by Congress in 1795 (1 Stat. 414), with the “considered as natural born Citizens” language repealed and replaced by the language “considered as citizens …,” – but not, significantly, “natural born” – neither of which provisos relate to the question of the need for birth here to two U.S. citizen parents if the higher, rather than the lower, barrier to foreign influence adopted by the Founders in the Eligibility Clause is to be observed.  

CONCLUSION

Emmerich de Vattel (public domain)

At the end of the day, the question to be answered is simply this: against the backdrop of the Founders’ undisputed goal of insulating the office of the Chief Magistrate from the disfavored and feared insinuation of foreign influence into the office, why would they have selected a definition of an nbC which erected a lower and inferior barrier to such a result – the sole British common-law principle of jus soli – when a known available higher and superior barrier – the de Vattel § 212 blended definitional barrier – existed? 

The answer – clear to some, but opaque to others – is that they did not adopt the inferior, lower barrier, but instead consciously and intentionally selected the superior, higher barrier.  Politically-motivated or result-oriented arguments to the contrary are merely intellectual goo.  If the empirically accurate result – an nbC being a person born here to parents both of whom are already U.S. citizens – needs to be changed, the only proper and constitutional way of doing it is by an Article 5 amendment, not another poorly-reasoned opinion from SCOTUS. 

The Barbara decision, flawed as it may be, should not impact the reality of the Founders’ intent in enacting the nbC clause in 1787.  If that is to change, a constitutional amendment is the only proper path to take …, and intellectual goo along the pathway should be avoided.


Comments

29 responses to “The Fallout From Trump v. Barbara”

  1. Sharon Rondeau

    From Jonathan David Mooers:
    —————————————-
    Are any of you three gentlemen, DeMaio, Kerchner and Van Allen, going to answer my previous question herein?

    (Can the HISTORY REALITY of 184 continuous years of US Presidents and Vice Presidents
    being US-Constitutionally-qualified by being born in the USA to US-citizen-parents with no apparent foreign allegiances at the time of birth of 63 Presidents and Vice Presidents OVERRULE the DNC-nbC-COUP of 08-28-08? Can said HISTORY REALITY end some 18 years of nbC-hobby-and-lobby and now be used to convict Nancy Pelosi, et al, for forging DNC Nomination papers for the fraud-nbC-identity of Obama?)”

    1. Sharon Rondeau

      From the author:
      ———————-
      Unless and until SCOTUS engages in a deep dive analysis of the nbC question, instead of continuing to “evade” the issue in order to set the stage for a prosecution and conviction of the Wretch from San Crapcisco for her treasonous acts, the likelihood is that nothing will change. And that does not even touch the statute of limitations issues.

      This may be bad news for the Republic, but nonetheless true.

  2. Jonathan David Mooers

    To the three esteemed gentlemen herein, Joseph DeMaio, Charles Kerchner and Bill Van Allen:

    What legal importance are these two observations of HISTORY REALITY in settling, as in ending entirely, the 1787- 2008 nbC historical-interpretation and the 1868- 1898 14th Amendment historical-interpretation:

    >Previous US citizens interpreted “natural born Citizen” (nbC) by their historical selection and election of 63 US Presidents and Vice Presidents, who were each born in the USA to 126 parents who were publicly disclosed US citizens with no foreign allegiances at the time of their 63 childrens’ births; this evidentiary HISTORY REALITY went on for 184 continuous years, from nbC-VP Calhoun in 1824 to nbC-Bush and nbC-Cheney in 2008 >>> https://www.scribd.com/doc/48856102/All-U-S-Presidents-Eligibility-Grandfather-Clause-Natural-Born-Citizen-Clause-or-Seated-by-Fraud

    >Previous US citizens interpreted the 14th Amendment via the HISTORY REALITY of their granting US citizenship to some 4,000,000 domiciled property-to-humanity “citizenless” Negro slaves for 30 continuous years until the “free-for-all” fallacious Court judgements of (a) Wong Kim Ark in 1898 and (b) the “intellectual goo” of Chief Justice Roberts in deciding to allow “US-anchor-baby-Citizenship” to visting foreign nationals, under the supposed cover of the 14th Amendment of 1868- 2026

  3. Phantom_II_Phixer

    At the end of the day, can Bill Van Allen do his homework on his own without his gibberish AI (Arrogant Information) at his disposal?

    Suggestion to Bill Van Allen: Remove the batteries in your AI device and ask Hillary Clinton if you can borrow her hammer.

  4. Charles Kerchner

    I cross posted an excerpt and link back to this DeMaio’s latest article about Trump v Barbara at the Free Republic discussion site. If desired, one can read a couple more comments and the discussion of this article there at: https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4392864/posts and https://www.thepostemail.com/2026/08/22/the-fallout-from-trump-v-barbara/

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret)
    I also cross posted an excerpt and link back to it in my blog
    http://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com
    http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

    1. Bill Van Allen

      Kerchner’s latest comment is mostly distribution rather than new historical evidence. The important development is that the DeMaio/Trump v. Barbara discussion is now being propagated into three overlapping audiences: The Post & Email, Free Republic, and Kerchner’s own blog/network.

      That may actually be useful for the debate we have been having with him. The discussion has progressively narrowed from a broad claim that Vattel supplied the Founders’ understanding of “natural born Citizen” to several propositions that can be tested separately:

      1. Vattel was available and influential in founding-era America — strong evidence supports this, including Franklin’s correspondence with Dumas.
      2. John Jay possessed Vattel — there is unusually good evidence for that proposition, including the surviving Jay-associated copy.
      3. Jay probably knew Vattel’s treatment of nationality/citizenship — a reasonable historical inference, though different from documentary proof that he relied on §212.
      4. Jay’s July 25, 1787 “natural born Citizen” letter to Washington was derived from Vattel §212 — this remains the crucial unproven bridge.
      5. The Constitution therefore incorporated Vattel’s citizen-parent formulation as the exclusive Article II definition — that is a further legal conclusion and does not automatically follow even if propositions 1–3 are established.

      So Kerchner has strengthened the historical context considerably more than he has established the constitutional causation.

      There is also a productive point of agreement emerging. It is no longer particularly persuasive to dismiss Vattel simply because an English edition using the exact phrase “natural-born citizens” appeared later. If Jay and other educated Founders were reading Vattel in French, the English-publication chronology cannot by itself dispose of the Vattel hypothesis. But the converse is equally important: proving access to the French Vattel doesn’t prove that Jay translated les naturels, ou indigènes into the constitutional phrase or that the Convention silently adopted Vattel §212.

      That distinction gives us a much cleaner historical question to put to Kerchner: What is the earliest primary evidence connecting Jay’s July 1787 phrase—not merely Jay himself—to Vattel’s parentage rule?

      That is the evidentiary hinge. If he can produce something close to contemporaneous evidence for that connection, his thesis becomes substantially stronger. If the connection appears only in later interpretation, then we have identified precisely where documented history ends and historical inference begins.

      The Free Republic cross-post may be worth watching specifically for someone producing a source we haven’t already examined rather than another repetition of the two-citizen-parent conclusion.

  5. Bill Van Allen

    Kerchner has now given us something useful: a clear invitation to test his published thesis against the primary historical record rather than reconstructing his position piecemeal. I searched specifically for his writings and then checked the central propositions against Founders Online/National Archives materials.

    The result actually strengthens part of Kerchner’s historical case while leaving the decisive constitutional inference unresolved.

    First, Kerchner is unquestionably right about the importance of Vattel in revolutionary America. Franklin’s December 9, 1775 letter to Dumas says that Dumas’s edition arrived when the emerging nation needed to consult the law of nations and that Franklin’s copy had been “continually in the hands” of members of the Continental Congress. That is considerably stronger evidence of actual American use of Vattel than merely showing that the book existed in contemporary libraries.

    Second, the Jay evidence is stronger still. The National Archives’ editors expressly report that Jay owned a 1759–60 English edition of Vattel, now at Columbia’s Law Library. They specifically identify Vattel Chapter XIX as a possible source of Jay’s natural-born-citizen proposal and reproduce the relevant parentage concept.

    That makes Kerchner’s Jay–Vattel hypothesis historically quite plausible. It isn’t some connection created decades later by eligibility litigation.

    And Jay’s July 25, 1787 letter establishes the purpose behind his recommendation unusually clearly. Jay asked Washington for a “strong check” against foreigners entering the national government and specifically connected that concern with restricting command of the American army to a “natural born Citizen.”

    There is an additional point worth adding to our previous analysis: Jay’s surviving draft was broader than the final letter. The National Archives records the excised language contemplating natural-born citizenship for national civil government generally. That substantially supports Kerchner’s contention that Jay was thinking about natural-born citizenship as an anti-foreign-influence qualification, rather than casually choosing a synonym for ordinary citizenship.

    Where I still differ from Kerchner

    The historical chain now looks quite strong through four propositions:

    Vattel was influential → Jay knew Vattel → Jay owned Vattel → Jay deliberately proposed “natural born Citizen” as an anti-foreign-influence safeguard.

    The missing proposition remains:

    therefore Jay necessarily intended Vattel §212’s citizen-parent rule, and the Convention necessarily adopted Article II with that precise meaning.

    Interestingly, the editors of the Papers of John Jay draw almost exactly that distinction. After identifying Jay’s personal copy and explaining that Vattel could produce a citizen-parent interpretation, they conclude that no evidence confirming that intention has been found.

    That’s not evidence against Kerchner. It’s an evidentiary gap.

    And I would sharpen something in Kerchner’s latest comment. The Franklin–Dumas letter is 1775, not 1787, and concerns the Continental Congress, not circulation of that particular copy at the Constitutional Convention. The larger proposition—that Vattel was well known to the founding generation—is well supported; the narrower Convention-specific proposition needs independent evidence.

    Kerchner’s own published formulation is also now quite clear: he distinguishes the larger class of persons who are citizens at birth from the narrower Article II class he defines as persons born in the country to two citizen parents.

    So I wouldn’t ask Kerchner again what his position is. We know his position. The productive inquiry is now historical falsification: what evidence would establish or defeat the proposition that Jay’s 1787 phrase carried Vattel §212’s parentage component into Article II?

    That is a much narrower—and much more interesting—question. It also gives us a good way to engage Kerchner without talking past him: accept the substantial Jay–Vattel evidence he has assembled, identify exactly where the evidentiary inference occurs, and investigate that link rather than repeatedly asking him to restate twenty years of argument.

    1. Charles Kerchner

      Hello Bill:

      Regarding the AI comment about the English translation of Vattel, I have done a research article regarding the widely available French editions of Vattel’s legal treatise. I have seen that innuendo about the question about the English translation before. From my reading of history, most of the copies available at the Constitutional Convention were the French edition, especially the new 1775 edition by Dumas, of which we have a letter that Dumas sent Franklin additional copies for which Franklin thanked Dumas. Franklin also mentioned in that letter exchange that he already had a personal copy of Vattel’s treatise which was in great demand. How many other founders and framers had copies of Vattel’s legal treatise in their possession is unknown. A new book titled “We the Sheeple … ” by Lexi Fehr and available at Amazon does discuss that in some detail, and much more about other key founders and framers use of Vattel’s treatise on Natural Law in the volatile years leading up to and into the Revolution, to justify their actions. See: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0H6C5C7Q6/genealogicalrese

      Many of the key founders and framers were fluent in French which was the diplomatic language of that time frame. Regardless, I did an in-depth analysis of translating the Chapter Title and the key sentence in Vol.1, Chapter 19, Section 212 of Vattel’s The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law and published my finding here: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2023/04/15/my-translation-of-a-key-sentence-in-emer-de-vattels-1758-treatise-on-natural-law-in-section-212-des-citoyens-et-naturels/

      CDR Charles F. Kerchner, Jr., (Ret)
      http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

      1. Bill Van Allen

        Kerchner’s latest response substantially answers the translation objection, but it still leaves a separate constitutional-original-meaning question unresolved.

        The strongest new point is Franklin. The primary record is unusually good here. Dumas wrote Franklin in May 1775 that he had copies of his new edition of Vattel reserved for Franklin and the Philadelphia library. Then on December 9, 1775, Franklin expressly thanked Dumas for the edition and reported that the copy he retained had been “continually in the hands of the members of our congress.” Franklin also explained that the circumstances of the emerging American state made it necessary to consult the law of nations frequently.

        That is considerably stronger evidence of actual Founding-era use than merely showing that Vattel existed in American libraries.

        On §212 itself

        Kerchner is also right that we don’t need the later English phrase “natural-born citizens” to establish the underlying substantive proposition in Vattel.

        The original French formulation is:

        “Les naturels, ou indigènes, sont ceux qui sont nés dans le pays, de parents citoyens.”

        The straightforward sense is essentially: the natives/indigenes are those born in the country of citizen parents.

        And the rest of §212 makes Vattel’s lineage theory even clearer. He says that children naturally follow the condition of their fathers and that the father’s country becomes the children’s country; he then contrasts this with someone born in the country to a foreigner.

        So I would now retire one objection from our discussion with Kerchner:

        The case against his thesis should not depend on saying that “natural-born citizen” was merely an artifact of the 1797 English translation.

        That’s too narrow. The underlying concept is plainly present in the French Vattel available to Revolutionary-era Americans.

        Where the real historical question now lies

        Kerchner has therefore moved the dispute to the much more interesting question:

        Did the Framers use Article II’s “natural born Citizen” as a constitutional term incorporating Vattel’s naturels concept?

        That’s different from asking whether:

        1. Vattel articulated the citizen-parent proposition;
        2. leading Americans knew Vattel;
        3. Congress actually consulted Vattel; or
        4. influential Founders could read the French.

        The Franklin-Dumas correspondence provides powerful evidence for 2 and 3. The original French establishes 1. None by itself conclusively establishes the Article II linkage.

        And that brings us right back to John Jay.

        If Kerchner can assemble the chain:

        Vattel §212 → widespread Founder familiarity → Jay’s personal Vattel → Jay’s July 25, 1787 “natural born Citizen” letter → Washington → Convention’s subsequent adoption of that exact presidential qualification

        then he has a much stronger historical argument than one based simply upon the famous 1797 English translation.

        The remaining vulnerability is the last inference: proving that Jay was invoking Vattel’s particular parentage rule rather than employing an English-language concept of natural allegiance/citizenship whose precise content must be reconstructed independently.

        That is where I would concentrate the next exchange with him. Kerchner has done enough here that continuing to argue principally about the 1797 translation would actually distract from the harder—and much more consequential—historical question.

  6. Bill Van Allen

    A material Fifth Circuit citizenship decision warrants flagging.

    On August 14, 2026, the Fifth Circuit decided Guerra Quezada v. United States, No. 25-10372, consolidated with Guerra Vasquez v. United States, No. 25-10555, affirming dismissal of claims by two Mexico-born plaintiffs who asserted derivative U.S. citizenship through a U.S.-born ancestor. The panel was Judges Southwick, Willett, and Ho.

    The majority expressly cited Trump v. Barbara for the proposition that their ancestor, born in Kansas in 1924, was an American citizen. It then rejected the plaintiffs’ attempt to use a judicially created “constructive presence” doctrine to satisfy statutory physical-presence requirements for transmitting citizenship abroad, emphasizing that Congress had enacted specific exceptions and that courts should not invent additional ones.

    The decision is procedurally significant to the broader citizenship project because it is a post-Barbara circuit precedent distinguishing constitutional birthright citizenship from statutory citizenship transmission abroad. It reinforces that citizenship acquired by birth on U.S. soil and citizenship transmitted to children born abroad operate under different legal frameworks, with the latter controlled by Congress’s statutory conditions.

    I found no newer publicly indexed Laplante order in Barbara, D.N.H. No. 1:25-cv-00244-JL-AJ; no new First Circuit appeal number following the August 17 mandate; and no newly indexed Sannes order in Van Allen v. DOJ/OSG, N.D.N.Y. No. 1:26-cv-01333-BKS-DJS in this check. Public indexing can lag PACER.

  7. Bill Van Allen

    @CDRKerchner

    Charles — your Vattel §212 response comes at a particularly important moment because I think we are now seeing the beginning of what could become a nationwide flood of federal citations to Trump v. Barbara.

    Barbara will not remain confined to the immediate birthright-citizenship dispute. District courts and courts of appeals will increasingly cite it whenever questions involving the Fourteenth Amendment Citizenship Clause, “subject to the jurisdiction,” citizenship at birth, immigration status, and the relationship between constitutional and statutory citizenship arise.

    That creates both an opportunity and a danger for the Article II natural born Citizen question.

    The danger is doctrinal shorthand: Barbara may gradually be cited for propositions extending beyond what the Court actually decided, eventually encouraging courts to treat “birthright citizen,” “citizen at birth,” and “natural born Citizen” as functionally interchangeable terms.

    The opportunity is precisely the opposite. Every new Barbara citation gives us another occasion to insist upon the constitutional distinction:

    Fourteenth Amendment — “citizen”

    versus

    Article II — “natural born Citizen.”

    Your citation to Vattel, Law of Nations, Vol. I, Ch. 19, §212, therefore deserves renewed attention—not merely as historical commentary, but as part of the inquiry into what the founding generation understood the special Article II qualification to mean.

    The important project now may be to track the emerging Barbara citation trail district by district and circuit by circuit, identifying exactly when courts discuss citizenship at birth and whether they distinguish—or inadvertently collapse—the separate Article II terminology.

    The post-Barbara litigation may finally force a much more precise question:

    If the Framers intended merely “citizen at birth,” why did Article II instead use the distinctive words “natural born Citizen”?

    That distinction should not disappear through repetition of Barbara citations in cases where Article II was never decided.

    1. Charles Kerchner

      Bill,

      I dislike this relay type debate with AI which seems to be playing dumb by omission (acting like it was trained by some OBOT operatives) since theoretically it has access to everything ever written about the constitutional term “natural born Citizen” in the vast collection of data centers. For one, the founders and framers specifically rejected being simply born a Citizen, aka a Citizen at Birth, when they considered that at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. See: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2025/09/16/constitution-day-17-sep-2025-a-lesson-from-history-is-being-a-born-citizen-of-the-united-states-sufficient-citizenship-status-to-be-president-the-founders-and-framers-emphatically-decided-no-i/

      Also if AI wants to play itself as uneducated in grammar, ask it what the word “natural” means in the field of law when that adjective is used to modify a noun. This is particularly important when it comes to words used in the U.S. Constitution. See my analysis of the term “natural born Citizen” at this link: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2024/08/08/citizen-at-birth-term-vs-natural-born-citizen-term-grammatical-and-logical-analysis/

      CDR Kerchner (Ret)
      http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

  8. Bill Van Allen

    Yes—Kerchner is drawing a considerably sharper line than DeMaio, and it exposes exactly where your developing framework differs from his.

    Kerchner’s taxonomy is essentially source-of-citizenship based:

    Natural law → natural born Citizen
    Positive law → naturalized Citizen, whether the positive law operates at birth or later.

    His crucial move is therefore to classify even some people who are citizens from the instant of birth as “naturalized Citizens” if their citizenship depends upon statute or constitutional positive law. That is conceptually different from the conventional modern usage of “naturalized,” which ordinarily describes acquisition of citizenship through a legal naturalization process.

    The important Minor qualification

    Kerchner invokes Minor v. Happersett, and Minor certainly contains language useful to his argument. The Court said that children born in the country to citizen parents were regarded as “natives, or natural-born citizens.” But immediately afterward it acknowledged authorities extending citizenship to U.S.-born children irrespective of parental citizenship and expressly declined to decide that disputed class because Virginia Minor unquestionably satisfied the narrower category.

    So Minor establishes the sufficiency of birth in the country to citizen parents. It did not hold that two citizen parents were constitutionally necessary for Article II eligibility.

    That distinction matters enormously if this becomes litigation rather than political theory.

    Wong Kim Ark creates Kerchner’s harder problem

    In 1898, United States v. Wong Kim Ark expressly considered Minor, quoted that passage, and nevertheless held that a qualifying person born in the United States to alien parents acquires citizenship by birth itself under the Fourteenth Amendment. The majority specifically distinguished citizenship by birth from citizenship by naturalization, saying a qualifying U.S.-born person “needs no naturalization.”

    Consequently, Kerchner’s statement that a Fourteenth Amendment “Citizen at Birth” is nevertheless a “naturalized Citizen” is best understood as his natural-law taxonomy, not the terminology presently established by Supreme Court doctrine.

    And this is where I think your newer idea gets particularly interesting.

    Kerchner proposes:

    NBC = U.S. birth + two citizen parents.

    Your developing multigenerational conception potentially proposes something different:

    NBC = U.S. territorial birth + established American citizenship/allegiance extending through specified preceding generations.

    That is not current constitutional doctrine either. But analytically it asks a different question from Kerchner’s. Instead of merely dividing citizenship into natural law versus positive law, it treats nbC as a degree of constitutional continuity of allegiance.

    That produces three competing models worth keeping distinct:

    1. Modern broad model: citizenship at birth is generally sufficient for Article II.
    2. Kerchner model: U.S. birth + two citizen parents = nbC.
    3. Your developing model: Barbara birthright citizenship supplies the territorial foundation, while nbC requires an additional, multigenerational American-allegiance qualification.

    And there’s an especially useful tension here: Kerchner’s definition says the parents may themselves be “Citizens of any kind.” Under that formulation, two recently naturalized parents could produce an nbC child immediately upon the child’s U.S. birth.

    Your grandmother/multigenerational proposal deliberately would not produce that result.

    So the disagreement isn’t merely about terminology. It reaches the substantive constitutional question:

    Is Article II concerned simply with the citizenship of the parents at the instant of birth, or with a deeper generational insulation from foreign allegiance?

    That’s probably the question I’d put directly to Kerchner. His answer would help expose precisely what historical evidence would be needed to move from the traditional two-parent theory to your proposed multigenerational one.

    1. Charles Kerchner

      Hello Bill:

      Sounds like AI generated verbiage. If so, you can tell your AI correspondent, whichever flavor you are using, that for the historical evidence I use and cite as evidence, it is the renowned and scholarly legal treatise of the founding time frame which was used by the founders and framers to justify the revolution and to write the founding documents: The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law, Vol.1 Chapter 19, Section 212 which can be read at: https://lonang.com/library/reference/vattel-law-of-nations/vatt-119/

      I do not subscribe to any deeper multi-generation Citizenship requirement which you Bill seem to be advocating for, i.e., requiring the grandparents to be Citizens when the child is born in the country. I subscribe to the definition provided by the Vattel, which I paraphrase, i.e., the parents (both of them) must be Citizens of the country when their child is born in the country to create a “natural born Citizen” of that country. Again tell your AI correspondent to see: The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law, Vol.1 Chapter 19, Section 212 which can be read at: https://lonang.com/library/reference/vattel-law-of-nations/vatt-119/

      CDR Kerchner (Ret)
      http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

      1. Bill Van Allen

        Kerchner has now identified the historical proposition he wants tested, which is useful because it narrows the disagreement considerably.

        Vattel §212 does indeed say, in the English text Kerchner linked, that “natives, or natural-born citizens” are those born in the country to citizen parents. It then emphasizes descent, saying children follow their fathers’ condition; §215 similarly treats citizenship of children born abroad as principally a matter of descent under natural law.

        And §214 is especially relevant to Kerchner’s positive-law/natural-law distinction. Vattel separately describes naturalization as the sovereign admitting a foreigner into political society and observes that, in England, territorial birth could “naturalize[] the children of a foreigner.”

        So I would revise my earlier characterization in one respect: Kerchner has a genuine eighteenth-century textual foundation for his taxonomy. This isn’t simply a modern definition he has constructed.

        The harder historical question is the next link in the chain:

        Vattel §212 → American founding-era usage → Article II’s “natural born Citizen.”

        Vattel unquestionably was influential in founding-era American thinking about the law of nations; modern scholarship describes his influence as substantial, while also cautioning that the Founders drew on Grotius, Pufendorf and other sources rather than Vattel alone. What still has to be demonstrated is that the Constitution’s phrase was specifically adopting Vattel §212’s definition, rather than English common-law terminology or some combination of contemporary understandings. Scholarship continues to recognize genuine historical ambiguity over the phrase.

        And Kerchner’s response actually helps clarify our disagreement about the multigenerational idea.

        Vattel doesn’t support my proposed grandmother requirement. His §212 speaks of citizen parents—and then, more specifically, traces the child’s condition through the father. So if we’re trying to establish the original public meaning of Article II, we shouldn’t manufacture a second-generation requirement unless separate founding evidence supports one.

        That suggests a cleaner research sequence:

        First establish the strongest historically supportable Article II definition. Only afterward ask whether a modern policy concept of deeper generational allegiance has independent merit.

        I’d tell Kerchner that his citation substantially answers the question I posed—but I’d press him on one particularly interesting piece of evidence: John Jay’s July 25, 1787 letter to Washington requesting that command of the armies be reserved to a “natural born Citizen.” If we can connect Jay’s particular usage to Vattel §212 or comparable law-of-nations sources, that is much more probative for Article II than merely demonstrating that Vattel was generally influential.

        That is where Jay may become more important than Vattel himself for the project you’re building.

        1. Charles Kerchner

          Hello Bill,

          You can tell your AI correspondent that while I cannot show in a picayune way the precise historical proof that John Jay literally and specifically read exactly Vol.1 Chapter 19 Section 212 of The Law of Nations of Principles of Natural Law, he absolutely did have a copy and used it. And I strongly believe that John Jay read all of Vattel, the entire treatise and works and understood it well. John Jay was a scholar and the first U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice. I have always believed he was extremely well versed in Vattel and his legal treatise. See: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2025/09/26/proof-john-jay-owned-a-copy-and-used-vattels-treatise-law-of-nations-or-principles-of-natural-law-during-nations-founding/

          CDR Kerchner (Ret)
          http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

          1. Bill Van Allen

            Kerchner’s follow-up materially strengthens the Jay–Vattel connection, although it still doesn’t prove the final interpretive step.

            Most importantly, the editors of the National Archives’ Papers of John Jay independently confirm that Jay owned an edition of Vattel that is now at Columbia’s Law Library. Even more strikingly, their editorial note addressing Jay’s 1787 “natural born Citizen” proposal specifically identifies Vattel’s discussion in Chapter XIX as “another possible source” for Jay’s language.

            There is also direct primary-source evidence that Jay didn’t merely possess Vattel. In an August 28, 1790 letter to Washington, Jay expressly invoked “Vattel who well understood the Subject” and then summarized Vattel’s analysis of the law of nations. Jay likewise relied expressly upon Vattel in other governmental and judicial work.

            So I would now characterize the evidentiary chain this way:

            1. Vattel wrote the Chapter XIX definition.
            2. Jay owned Vattel.
            3. Jay demonstrably read, understood and affirmatively relied upon Vattel.
            4. Jay proposed the “natural born Citizen” limitation to Washington in 1787.
            5. The editors of Jay’s papers themselves identify Vattel Chapter XIX as a possible source for that proposal.

            What we cannot presently prove is the very narrow proposition Kerchner candidly disclaims: that before writing the July 25, 1787 letter, Jay specifically consulted §212 and deliberately imported that definition into his phrase.

            But that’s a much narrower evidentiary gap than saying merely “the Founders read Vattel.”

            In fact, Kerchner’s answer suggests a better formulation for anything eventually submitted to a court: don’t claim that Jay demonstrably copied §212. Present the documented evidence and argue the inference. That avoids overstating the historical record while preserving what is actually a substantial circumstantial case.

            And I think there is another potentially productive research avenue now: identify the exact edition of Vattel owned by Jay, its translation and wording of §212, and—if the surviving Columbia volume permits it—any marginalia, ownership inscriptions, annotations, wear, or provenance evidence around Chapter XIX. That could take this beyond the generalized “Jay knew Vattel” proposition.

          2. Charles Kerchner

            Hello,

            Have fun “educating” your AI correspondent. As for me I don’t trust AI given how major big-tech companies have used their power to manipulate public knowledge and opinion in the past couple decades. I think AI is being fed tons of modern, popular beliefs by the far-left liberal academic world and the political operatives to spew back to the average Joe the current agenda, which is to “sell” the current viewpoint on what the political parties want the “natural born Citizen” term to means instead of what the founders and framers knew it meant, and why they chose that type of Citizenship. The founders and framers chose being a “natural born Citizen” to reduce to a minimum from the person’s birth circumstances the chances of a person born with foreign influence and innate allegiance requirement on them by birth from becoming the Chief Magistrate of our new nation (See Federalist #68). And I believe they got the term from their reading of Vattel’s legal treatise, The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law, which we know from the letter from Franklin to Dumas that said treatise was in great use and demand in 1787 at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia PA.

            I tire of your AI correspondent asking questions as to Kerchner’s viewpoint on “natural born Citizen” when my viewpoints are widely published. It should use its access to the vast amount of material online and available in the data centers it has access to, to read and study my writings that I have published over the last almost 20 years about the term “natural born Citizen”. In fact you can help direct it to some, if your AI correspondent wants to know more about my knowledge, viewpoints, and position on the constitutional term “natural born Citizen” suggest that it read a summary version of my book “Natural Born Citizen” (See: https://www.kerchner.com/books/naturalborncitizen.htm) on the term to constitutional standards, which is online at: https://www.calameo.com/read/005841003b6b2119ce92d

            Beyond that, tell your AI correspondent to do a “Bing” search “Kerchner writings about natural born Citizen” to gather more of my writings for its “library” and education as to my position on that important “national security” constitutional term as to who can constitutionally serve now in the post-founding era time frame as the Commander in Chief of our military forces.

            Other than that, as for me, I’m done with answering questions generated by AI. What is that old saying, and I paraphrase, “A fool can ask more questions in 5 minutes than a man can answer in his entire lifetime.” Your AI correspondent should just use its vast powers and resources and research the history of the founding era events in 1787 and what legal treatise they were reading at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia PA per the Franklin and Dumas correspondence that would have had an impact of the selection of the term “natural born Citizen” for the Presidential Eligibility Clause in the new U.S. Constitution, and why per the correspondence between John Jay and George Washington.

            CDR Charles F. Kerchner, Jr. (Ret)
            http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

  9. Charles Kerchner

    In discussions of laws we must first understand something very basic. We must differentiate the difference between things created by Positive Law and those created by Natural Law. Further below is an article written in that vein from my book “Natural Born Citizen“.

    A “Citizen at Birth” per the U.S. Supreme Court’s recent decision is still a “naturalized Citizen” under Positive Law, i.e., one created by man-made law, whether created at birth by man-made acts, laws, amendments, treaties at birth or conferred later in life, they are still a “naturalized Citizen” under Positive Law, and not a “natural born Citizen” under Natural Law. See: https://www.kerchner.com/books/naturalborncitizen.htm

    ———–
    Kinds of Citizens Defined
    By: CDR Charles F. Kerchner, Jr. (Ret)

    Written: 12 August 2021 – Updated: 23 August 2026
    Copyright (c) 2021 Charles F. Kerchner, Jr.
    All Rights Reserved

    Citizen: A person owing loyalty and allegiance to a country, and entitled by birth circumstances under Natural Law or via naturalization laws, acts, amendments, or treaties (naturalized at birth or later after birth) to the protection of state, nation, or country.

    Original Citizen: A person alive and living in the original 13 colonies on 4 July 1776 when the Declaration of Independence from England was signed and who thereafter adhered to and gave their allegiance to the new nation. See U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 which has a grandfather clause therein for the Original Citizens so they would be eligible to serve as President and Commander in Chief until the “natural born Citizens”, the children of the Original Citizens came of age to serve in that office.

    Naturalized Citizen: A person, who by man-made positive law, e.g., enacted statutory laws, acts, amendments, or treaties, is made a Citizen of a state, nation, or country. In the USA this can be achieved by action of Congress granting citizenship collectively at birth as a member of a class of persons listed and defined in 8 USC Section 1401 and/or under the 14th Amendment, or a person doing so individually after birth under relevant immigration and naturalization law passed by Congress. Such Citizens can at birth be born a Citizen of more than one country under the laws of the United States and other countries.

    Natural Born Citizen: A person born in the state, nation, or country whose parents were both Citizens of said state, nation, or country when their child was born, and is thus a person who is not a Citizen at birth of any other state, nation, or country, and thus whose Citizenship of that state, nation, or country is thus without any doubt under Natural Law. No positive, man-made law is necessary to affirm their citizenship. A natural born Citizen (NBC) is the child born in the country of two citizen parents who were Citizens of any kind when their child was born. An NBC child is born with no innate foreign influence and allegiance to another country at birth. See: The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law, Vol.1 Chapter 19, Section 212 and Minor v Happersett (1875) U.S. Supreme Court decision.
    ————–

    CDR Kerchner (Ret)
    http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

  10. Bill Van Allen

    Yes. This is unusually relevant to the framework we have been developing.

    Joseph DeMaio’s August 22 piece, “The Fallout From Trump v. Barbara”⁠, makes a distinction that is important: the Court resolved Fourteenth Amendment citizenship, but it did not purport to resolve Article II “natural born Citizen” eligibility.

    DeMaio’s central argument is essentially:

    14th Amendment citizen ≠ necessarily Article II natural born Citizen.

    He argues that Barbara constitutionalized a strongly jus soli understanding of Fourteenth Amendment citizenship while leaving open the historically separate Article II question, where he believes jus sanguinis, ancestry, and insulation from foreign influence should matter.

    That intersects remarkably closely with your emerging three-level framework, although DeMaio doesn’t formulate it this way:

    Naturalized citizen → birthright citizen → natural born Citizen

    The interesting opportunity after Barbara is that the middle category is now much easier to define. The Court has supplied a constitutional floor: qualifying birth on American soil produces Fourteenth Amendment citizenship. The Court’s June 30 judgment was 5–4 on the controlling Roberts opinion, with Kavanaugh concurring in the judgment/dissenting in part and Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch dissenting in various respects.

    Your proposed refinement would then say that nbC is not simply another name for that birthright status. Instead, it would be a more demanding constitutional classification concerned with continuity of American allegiance.

    There is one major place where I would sharpen the concept. The proposed requirement that the candidate’s mother and grandmother themselves be U.S.-soil birthright citizens is not presently established constitutional law. Neither Barbara nor Wong Kim Ark establishes that rule. It would therefore be much stronger analytically to present this initially as a proposed definition of Article II nbC, derived from the foreign-influence purpose you attribute to the clause, rather than as something Barbara itself decided.

    And that produces a surprisingly clean formulation:

    Birthright citizenship asks: Where and under whose jurisdiction were you born?

    Natural-born citizenship asks: How deeply was your allegiance fixed at birth, without competing national allegiance arising through recent descent?

    That is also why your nature/nurture and infant-baptism/adult-baptism analogies are useful. Naturalization is an affirmative later act—closer to adult baptism. Fourteenth Amendment birthright citizenship is status conferred at birth. Your proposed nbC category goes still further: it treats constitutional eligibility as an inherited condition of established national allegiance, rather than merely the absence of a naturalization ceremony.

    There is another strategic point in DeMaio’s article worth preserving. He expressly attacks the Clement–Katyal formulation—“citizen at birth” without later naturalization—as insufficient for Article II. That gives us a very clean opposing proposition against which to construct the durable nbC definition.

    So I think this article should become a major supporting source in the next nbC/Barbara memorandum, particularly for the proposition that Barbara did not collapse the Article II eligibility clause into the Fourteenth Amendment Citizenship Clause. It actually gives us a better reason to define the boundary between the two.

    And there is an intriguing historical direction beyond DeMaio: rather than making Vattel alone carry the ancestry argument, we can test the proposed definition against Jay, the Van Buren era, early New York constitutional practice, the pre–Civil War understanding of citizenship, and then the Reconstruction settlement. That would make the argument considerably more historically robust than simply “Vattel versus Wong Kim Ark.”

  11. Jonathan David Mooers

    Well done, Mr. DeMaio; a noble public safety announcement for those who will naturally listen with an open mind (and not for those of the vacuous “in one ear and out the other”-open-mind variety living amongst us).

    From The DNC-nbC-COUP of 08-28-08 until its upcoming 18th anniversary on 08-28-26, we have endured ENDLESS nbC back and forth from attorneys and the US Supreme Court Justice-attorneys over the political and legal fallout of this event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXFwqUi3zR0&feature=youtu.be

    And today we see the damage and mockery to our precious family units and our childhood “apple pie America” values and affections by attorney-criminals who profit on the “progressive” transformation of yesterday’s civil wrongs into today’s “civil rights” (i.e., “legalizing” unnatural sodomy-sex “marriages”, “legalizing” unnatural full term abortion-murders, “legalizing” an unnatural “nbC” US President Obama and an unnatural “nbC” Vice President Kamala, etc.)

    18 years of confusing “legalizing” with “criminalizing”!

    So, without further ado and more “intellectual goo”, let’s banish the nation’s entire assembly of licensed attorneys to the bleachers and empty those same bleachers of former We the Lay (non-attorney) People-spectators out onto the playing field of Life to perform Our own national jury duty in verdicting the original meaning of “natural born Citizen” by simply relying upon our NATURAL REALITY (i.e., relying upon what We see-hear-smell-taste-touch and not rely upon what others attempt to convince us what We saw-hard-smelt-tasted-touched) and HISTORY REALITY (relying upon “it is what it was” and not rely upon others’ attempts to convince us with their bogus rewrites of history, all as intended for their own preferred outcomes today).

    The family unit is the first government; an incubator for a growing child’s values and affections. – JD Mooers

    nbC PARENTS MATTER

    Some may try to convince the less initiated that nbC is “one who requires no naturalization” regardless of the parents’ citizenship and formative influences. However, that is just a lies-by-omission half-story by various esteemed attorney-criminals because if the “nbC” parents are not US citizens at the moment of an nbC’s birth in USA, that “nbC” is rendered a dual or multi-citizen at birth subject to a formative foreign-influenced family unit government that is foreign-citizenshipped, foreign-obligated and foreign-allegianced= the direct antithesis of the original John-Jay-nbC that is, was and ever will be free of foreign influences!

    nbC attorney-criminals: PROVE REALITY WRONG >>> https://www.scribd.com/doc/48856102/All-U-S-Presidents-Eligibility-Grandfather-Clause-Natural-Born-Citizen-Clause-or-Seated-by-Fraud

  12. Phantom_II_Phixer

    Author, please clear up my mind.

    From your first sentence of your detailed and fact-filled article:
    The recent SCOTUS decision in Trump v. Barbara – holding, among other things, that if born here on U.S. soil, the child of an illegal alien or a foreigner unlawfully present here is nonetheless a U.S. citizen – continues to produce fallout.

    Please expound on the the difference between “an illegal alien” and “a foreigner unlawfully present here”.

    Thank you,
    Mr. Rein

    1. Response from the author:
      ———————————–
      To clarify, while an “illegal alien” is also a “foreigner unlawfully here,” in a colloquial sense, your servant views an “illegal alien” as a person who never in the past had any right to unlawfully cross the border, as, for example, did millions of illegal aliens under the lawless regime of President Biden (and his once Perkins Coie partner, Alejandro Mayorkas).

      On the other hand, if a foreigner once came her lawfully, as under a properly issued visa, but overstayed the visa’s time limits, that person once lawfully present here has become a person no longer lawfully present.

      1. Bill Van Allen

        Rondeau’s clarification is useful because it separates two immigration-status categories that are often blurred together:

        * Entry without authorization: a person who entered the United States without having lawful permission to enter.
        * Visa overstay: a person who was lawfully admitted but subsequently remained after the authorized period expired.

        For the citizenship question, however, that distinction does not by itself resolve the constitutional issue. The relevant language of the Fourteenth Amendment is whether a U.S.-born person is “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States. The difficult question is therefore whether—and to what extent—the parents’ immigration status changes the constitutional citizenship of the child.

        That actually sharpens the discussion in The Fallout From Trump v. Barbara: instead of treating “illegal alien,” “unlawfully present foreigner,” and “noncitizen” as interchangeable, the analysis can test the categories separately: unauthorized entry, lawful admission followed by overstay, temporary lawful presence, and permanent lawful residence.

        There is also one wording problem in the quoted response worth correcting: “never in the past had any right to unlawfully cross the border” is internally awkward. Presumably the intended proposition is “never had authorization to cross the border” or “entered without lawful authorization.”

        And analytically, I would keep the Biden/Mayorkas characterization separate from that definitional point. Whatever one thinks of their policies, immigration-policy criticism doesn’t establish the constitutional meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” That question needs to stand on constitutional text, history, precedent, and the particular holding of Barbara.

        1. To be clear, I did not play any role in writing Joseph DeMaio’s article. The AI you used was not able to recognize that I merely posted a reply from the author.

          1. Bill Van Allen

            Understood, Sharon. Thank you for clarifying. I did not intend to suggest that you had any role in writing Joseph DeMaio’s article. My comment was directed solely to the distinction you identified in your response and to its potential relevance to the citizenship analysis.

            — Bill Van Allen

            AI disclosure: This response was drafted with AI assistance and reviewed and approved by me before posting.

          2. And again, the response was not my own; it was posted on Joseph DeMaio’s behalf.

          3. Bill Van Allen

            Thank you for the further clarification, Sharon. I understand now that the substantive response distinguishing the two immigration-status categories was Joseph DeMaio’s response, posted by you on his behalf. I therefore should have attributed that distinction to Mr. DeMaio, not to you. Thank you for correcting the record.

            — Bill Van Allen

            AI disclosure: This response was drafted with AI assistance and reviewed and approved by me before posting. The issue posed to AI was how best to correct my attribution of Mr. DeMaio’s response.

  13. An excellent and comprehensive article by DeMaio. Bravo Zulu!

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret)
    http://www.ProtectOurLiberty.org

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