“Security Failures” Issues in Libya

HEARING TO LAST TWO AND ONE-HALF HOURS

by Sharon Rondeau

(Oct. 10, 2012) — At 12:02 p.m., the House Oversight Committee is convening a hearing on security failures in Libya leading up to the September 11, 2012 attack which killed four Americans.  “The hearing should get under way shortly,” the C-Span announcer said.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has not been asked to testify.

Rep. Darrell Issa is chairman of the committee, and Rep. Elijah Cummings is ranking member.

At 12:04, no one is seated yet and people are talking with one another in a rising cacophony.

At 12:05 p.m., Issa called the committee to order by banging a gavel.  He read that there are two principles upon which the Oversight Committee functions, which include “holding government accountable to taxpayers.”

Issa then read a summary of the biographies of the four people who were murdered in Benghazi last month:  Sean Smith, Amb. Christopher Stevens, Tyrone Davis and Glen Doherty.

Issa stated that a telephone press conference was held yesterday by diplomats which concluded that the State Department had “never” said that the violence stemmed from a “protest” against an anti-Islamic video.  Rather, Issa said that it was the 11th anniversary which “caused that organization, aligned with Al-Qaeda,” which caused the violence.  Issa said that he has spoken with Clinton and that she is cooperating with the investigation.

Reading from documents, Issa said that reports from eyewitnesses stated that “normalization” was placed above security of U.S. personnel in Benghazi, culminating in a “reduced” security detail.

Issa reported that requests for more security were rebuffed by the State Department.  “We now know that it [the attack] was caused by a terrorist attack…especially on September 11,” Issa said.

“Thousands” of other Americans around the world could be a target, Issa said.  He reported that a “blue-ribbon panel”would be investigating the lapses in security in Benghazi.  “Today it is 30 days since the…attack…more or less.  It is a long time to wait if you’re sitting in…Beirut or Damascus…” for more security, he said.

Issa said the purpose of the hearing was to begin “confidence-building” which would result in more protection rather than less.  He then invited Cummings to speak.

“All other members will have seven days in order to put their statements in the opening record,” Issa said.

Cummings said that “his side of the aisle” also grieved about the four deaths in Benghazi, not just Issa’s side.  “We have to carefully investigate statements that have been made over the last week,” Cummings said.  He thanked Clinton for cooperating and providing “more witnesses” than were requested.

Cummings said that statements from regional official Eric Nordstrom that there should have been five security personnel in Benghazi led to the discovery that five people had been there.  He asked if security functions had been provided “by others on the ground” and advised that everyone listen carefully to all allegations and discovery.

Cummings then accused Chairman Issa of not conducting a bipartisan investigation.  Clearly upset, Cummings said that “the chairman has withheld documents…and “excluded Democrats” from a congressional delegation to Libya.  He called Issa’s actions “petty abuses.”

He claimed that every member of the Senate has participated in beginning an investigation in a bipartisan way.  Cummings said he wished to “focus on the security” of American personnel.  He stated that all members of the House swear an oath to protect the American people.

[Editor’s Note:  How many members of Congress keep their oath?]

Cummings said that the House has “cut embassy security below levels requested by the president” during the last two years.  “We can do better, and I would like to ask the Chairman to join me in doing so.”  Cummings then asked Issa to move to increase money for security and mentioned Mitt Romney doing so as well.  Cummings said increasing allocations for security was of the “utmost urgency.”

Issa then spoke and said that he had said “this side of the dais,” not the “aisle.”  Issa asked Cummings if he could provide a rule that had been allegedly violated, which Cummings said he would do.

Issa then introduced Rep. Jason Chaffetz, a member of the Oversight Committee, who said “I believe we have a moral imperative to pursue this.”  Chaffetz also thanked the members of the panel.

“Before 9-11-2012, it was a very tumultuous and difficult situation.”  He then asked to introduced a statement from Eric Nordstrom reporting that there was “a total of 230 incidents in Libya.”  Nordstrom said in his letter that “normalization” should not have been pursued given the dangers in Libya.  Chaffetz then said that a British diplomat was attacked “weeks before and instructed someone to show slides of several attacks before September 11.  “A terrorist attack on a U.S. asset in Libya” was ignored, Chaffetz said.  “I believe with more assets…we could have and should have saved the life of Amb. Stevens and the other people who were there,” Chaffetz said.

Chaffetz then said that the State Department had given a press conference last night, which they “hadn’t known about.”  Chaffetz said he traveled to Libya last weekend and was “followed by an attorney” at the behest of the State Department.  “Let us be careful today not to reveal…classified information,” Chaffetz said.

When Chaffetz was in Libya, he said “no one” mentioned “a video” and was outraged that a video had nothing to do with the violence.

Issa then thanked Chaffetz and asked Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton of Washington, DC to speak.  Norton claimed that the Republican budget “slashes the budget that would have protected these diplomats.”  Norton said that the four who died did so “heroically.”  She said that “mourning in the streets” was a tribute to Stevens.  “In little more than a few months after the Arab Spring, he had already established an entirely new and promising relationship between the United States and Libya.”  Norton then thanked Issa for holding the hearing “in the midst of a campaign.”  She asked to go on record for thanking Clinton for “open cooperation with this hearing.”  Norton then said that “there can be no difference” between Democrats and Republicans in investigating the matter of the four deaths and said that the committee has not conducted it in a bipartisan way.

Next to speak was Rep. Gerald Connolly, who said that he was unaware of the trip to Libya made by Republicans. He said he “hoped” that the investigation was not politically-driven.  “How can we make sure that we take a fresh look at the resources required…?” he asked.  Connolly said he wanted to know “the nature of the challenge we face in countries like Libya.”

Issa then said that the funding which the State Department has for embassies was voted “yea” by more Democrats than Republicans.

Issa then introduced the four witnesses:  Lt. Col. Andrew Wood, Charlene Lamb, Eric Nordstrom, and Amb. Patrick Kennedy and swore them in.  Issa “admonished” those who submitted their statements later than the 24-hour notice requirement.

Wood was the first to speak, giving his background as a member of the Utah National Guard.  He is currently a security officer in the West.

Wood said that after he learned of Stevens’ death, he initiated a dialogue with government officials about the loss of live.  “I feel duty-bound to come forward,” Wood said.  “I realize much of my work in Libya was entangled in sensitive government work.”

Wood said that he will risk “averse circumstances” as a result of his testimony if necessary.

He had been assigned to a 16-member security team “to meet the demanding security challenges” in a “post-Gaddafi…Libya.”  He called the environment “uncertain and volatile.”   “I worked directly for the regional security officer,” Wood said.  He described the job of the SST.  “On two occasions, I sent officers to Benghazi…” he said.  “I trveled to Benghazi on two occasions…to evaluate the security situation there.  I was there a second time in June when the UK Ambassador’s convoy was attacked.”

Wood said that he had “regular” meetings with Stevens and others to evaluate security.  “Amb. Stevens was an avid runner and played tennis as well…I ran with him on several occasions,” Wood said.  The term “RSO” means “Regional Security Officer.”

Wood said that he no longer has access to certain information exchanged with the nation of South Africa regarding security.

“The situation remained unstable,” Wood said of Libya after Gaddafi’s overthrow.  “Fighting between militias was common when I departed” which resembled “freelance” criminals.  Wood said that Amb. Stevens “struggled with renewing” the SST last spring.  Security personnel were used to train local guards only.  “The security in Benghazi was a struggle…” Wood said.  “Diplomatic security remained weak.  The RSO struggled to obtain additional personnel” but was unable to acquire it, Wood said.

Eric Nordstrom was next to speak.

He is currently a supervisory special agent within the State Department, working there since 1998.  He was the Regional Security Officer in the Libya region until July.

“I’m here today to provide testimony…including the murders of Amb. Stevens…” and the others who died, Nordstrom said.

Nordstrom said his family and he would like to offer condolences to the “four patriots who gave their lives in the service of their country.”

“There were many of us dedicated to the mission in Libya,” Nordstorm said.  He then commented on the attack of September 11, 2012.  “I’m concerned that this attack signals a new security reality,” comparing it to the 1983 Beirut bombing.  He said that it was “critical” to balance the risk needs with American personnel with the current situation.  In Libya, he said that people were unable to “protect themselves” from roving gangs of criminals and terrorists.

Nordstom said that the Libyan government was not able to protect Americans, but a private brigade was hired to do so.  Increasing “incidents” were noted in the spring and “planning by would-be attackers” was undertaken.  “We reiterated our request at all levels of government” for security, Nordstrom said.  In July 2012, Nordstrom said that 15 security people were requested plus the retention of a “six-agent” team.  “Earlier requests…were approved,” Nordstrom said.  He detailed several requests made for security agents.  “Armed private security companies were not allowed to operate in Libya,” Nordstrom said.  The local guards were therefore “unarmed.”  Their job was to alert others about security concerns, Nordstrom said.

“Local nationals provide us with continuity…threat awareness, and language and cultural skills,” Nordstrom said.  He said that he was “proud” of what his team accomplished in Libya.  “I’m glad to further discuss my experiences…” Nordstrom said.

Charlene Lamb was the next to speak.  A long-term State Department employee with global experience, Lamb said that “we are speaking today with an incomplete picture.”  She described the Benghazi outpost.  “It is more than 300 yards long and nearly 100 yards wide.” she said.  “The private section was a residential area that included a safe haven.”  She said that “Building B” housed security agents.  Lamb said that external lighting and other steps were taken to enhance security.  “We installed security grills on windows and included escape windows with emergency releases.”  She said that three private guards and five security members were there on September 11, 2012.  Lamb said that measures taken were coordinated with Washington, DC.  She said that she was formerly a diplomatic security officer herself.

Lamb described a “full-scale assault” was launched on September 11.  She said that an employee issued an alarm “immediately.”  “One agent secured Amb. Stevens and Sean Smith in a safe haven,” Lamb said.  She said that the agent tried to assist the two to escape through a window, crediting him with “reentering and searching the building several times.”

Lamb said that “armed attackers” were encountered by security personnel who tried to find Smith and “could not find the Ambassador.”  She contended that “the Libyans insisted” that the site needed to be evacuated.  “They took heavy fire as they pulled away from the main building” but were able to…

Rep. Chaffetz then interrupted Lamb, stating that she could be divulging classified material.

Issa then asked Kennedy if they were using unclassified information, to which Kennedy answered in the affirmative.  Chaffetz said that a photo was giving away “sources and methods.”  Issa asked Kennedy if the information had been “cleared through his channels,” to which Kennedy said it was.

Issa said that Lamb’s opening statement “should have been given to us” last night since it was released in the press conference last evening.  Chaffetz said that he was told he “could not and should not” speak about what was being shown now.

Issa sided “with the administration” and said that they “could show what they had to show.”  Issa asked Kennedy if the photo could be found on Google.

Lamb was asked to continue her testimony.

She described a “mortar attack” which killed two Americans.  She said the “remaining Americans” were “escorted to the airport.”  She then concluded her testimony.

Issa said he had changed his mind and asked that a particular photo be taken down in case its contents were classified.  Issa said he attended a classified hearing on October 9 at which several material had been shown.

Amb. Kennedy then spoke.  Kennedy said that Libya was undergoing a “historic transformation.”  He said that “we still do not know” all of the information regarding what happened in Libya on September 11.  “We at the State Department are determined to get this right,” Kennedy said.  He said that Clinton had appointed a security review board to review the incident.  “This is a complicated review…and until then is an incomplete picture,” he said.

Kennedy said that the information Amb. Susan Rice had on September 16 was the same information he had at the time.  He said that people might be asking why the U.S. is in Benghazi when it is dangerous.  He said that Amb. Stevens “must operate in places where our military cannot or does not…and where there are serious threats to our security.”

Kennedy said that following the attack, “thousands of Libyans” mourned Stevens’ murder, which “confirmed what Chris Stevens knew so well…”

“Diplomacy must be practiced in dangerous places,” Kennedy said.  He said that extremism “takes root” when the U.S. is absent from dangerous places.  “We can and we will reduce the risk to those who serve.”  He said not “all” embassies are “fortresses.”  “We must continue deploying” American personnel “to places like Benghazi,” Kennedy said.  He spoke for less than five minutes.

Issa asked Kennedy about a statement he made in last night’s State Department press conference.  He asked if Kennedy would give the Committee the documents used in the presser which had been indicated as “unclassified.”  Kennedy said “individual pieces may be unclassified, but the totality of the information was restricted.”  Issa said the committee wanted the documents now and then asked for certain documents to be “placed on the record,” giving specific dates of the documents.

Cummings said that the committee already as the documents.  He then asked the question, to which Issa answered that he had one on an Ipad.

Issa told Kennedy that “documents being withheld” are hampering the ability of the committee to gather information.  Issa then asked Nordstrom if he stood by a statement he had made about “sufficient resources” at Benghazi.  He paraphrased what Nordstrom had said, and Nordstrom affirmed it.  Issa asked Nordstrom if it were true that Stevens had “ceased running” if he had perceived a threat, but “only under your authority and recommendations.”

“Did he do what you thought…or did he chafe over what you thought was best for his security?” Issa asked.  Nordstrom said that he had never heard anything from Stevens regarding security precautions.  “He was absolutely responsive,” Nordstrom said.

Issa then asked Lamb about a request for more security.  He asked her if it were true that if a security request were submitted, she “would not support it.”  “Under the current conditions, yes,” Lamb said.  She said that a July 9 cable gave her different information, but Issa said it had the word “request.”  “Yesterday you told us, under penalty of perjury,…that it was a recommendation,” Issa said.  Issa said that “cables” have been denied to the committee.

Issa contended that The State Department was making the case that Stevens had not asked for more security forcefully enough.

Cummings asked Kennedy about a “litany of security improvements” made in the Benghazi and Tripoli outposts., to which Kennedy responded Cummings was correct about his assertions.  Kennedy discussed a cable “drafted in the department” which had recommended five security people and “a minimum of three” security personnel at Benghazi.

It was confirmed that there were “five special agents in Benghazi” on the night of the attack.  Kennedy confirmed the statement.  Cummings asked Lamb further questions about traveling in Libya and security details.

Cummings asked Kennedy if the July 9 cable asked for three or five agents in Benghazi.

Issa then recognized Rep. Dan Burton, who asked Kennedy about his activities on the evening of September 11, 2012 after hearing about the Libya attack.  Burton asked Kennedy if he stood by his statement that the attack had been “a terrorist attack.”   Burton asked Lamb why she hadn’t referred to the perpetrators as “terrorists.”  “Why do you call them attackers?” Burton asked.

Burton said there were 16 troops in Benghazi and said that Lamb had “not accepted it.”  Lamb corrected Burton to say that the troops were in Tripoli, not Benghazi.  Lamb said that she had not thought that 16 troops were needed.  Finally, Lamb said that “personally, I would not support it.”

“Why is that?” Burton asked.  Lamb said that they “had been training” local security people.  “It would not have made any difference in Benghazi,” Lamb said.

Burton asked Nordstrom for comment.  Nordstrom said that “a lot of discussions” were had about the security needs of the outposts.  “The number that we came up with…was approximately 12 armed security with an additional six persons that would be focused on training that local guard unit,” Nordstrom said.

Issa asked Nordstrom if there had been a high turnover of guards.  “Those were subcontracted,” Nordstrom said.  He said that Blue Mountain, a British company, had then outsourced the jobs to Libyans.

Issa asked Wood if he had anything to add.  Wood said that “extra support” was provided to respond to a “military-style attack.”

Rep. Norton spoke again, asking Kennedy how the public first learned of the “disturbance in Benghazi.”  Norton asked Kennedy how Susan Rice had arrived at her conclusions stated “on television.”  Norton read what the National Intelligence Director had said about the September 11 attack which said that it had arisen “spontaneously.”  Norton quoted Kennedy as having said that the “ferocity” of the attack was unprecedented.  Norton suggested that more funds need to be allocated to protection of embassies.  She asked Kennedy if believed that Rice had relied on the statement from the NID.

“Both of us were relying on the same statement,” Kennedy said.  “This has been, as you all know, a very evolving situation,” Kennedy said.  Holmes read from the NID statement which said that as more information was gathered, they decided that it had been a terrorist attack.

Norton asked Kennedy how people in Cairo, Egypt reacted to something Mitt Romney had said.

Issa questions Kennedy about how the State Department made its initial statement and did not have new information within a five-day period.

Someone objected that Issa had given more time for Burton to speak than Cummings.  Cummings was then given the floor.  He asked Kennedy if the State Department was “still in the process of trying to get it right.”

“We were looking for every piece of information,” Kennedy said.  “Is it unusual for you to rely on the intelligence community for that type of information?” Cummings asked.  Kennedy said that they had a symbiotic relationship with the intelligence community.

Rep. Jim Jordan then asked Lamb and Kennedy if they had ever been to Libya; both answered “no.”  An exchange between Jordan and Nordstrom became a bit contentious.  Nordstrom said he was told not to return phone calls to members of the committee, admitting that he had not returned six phone calls after he gave information to the committee.  Nordstrom said that someone had told him not to speak with them.  Jordan asked if “they” had helped Nordstrom to prepare his remarks, to which Nordstrom answered in the affirmative.

Jordan asked Lamb if she listened carefully to what “the guys in the field” said they needed for security.  Jordan asked Wood if his recommendations were met, and Wood said no.  Wood said that Nordstrom had referred to Lamb as “the authority” about the decision.  “Somebody had to decide,” Jordan said. “Was it just Ms. Lamb, or was somebody else involved?”

Nordstrom said someone named Amb. Kretz had discussed security.  Kennedy said he “was going to request a third” assignment of the SST.  Issa then had to interrupt because of time constraints.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich then spoke.  He was clearly angry that expenditures and personnel have been stationed in dangerous Middle Eastern countries for more than a decade.  Kucinich said, “This Congress needs to ask questions…We could talk about hundreds of millions in cuts…we could talk about whether or not it’s prudent to rely on contractors…but we owe it to the delegation…our nation spurred on a civil war, destroying the security of Libya…During the Arab Spring…” we conducted “unconstitutional” military intervention, Kucinich said.  “It’s not surprising…that the State Department was not adequately able to protect our diplomats…it’s easy to blame someone else…it’s harder to acknowledge that decades of American foreign policy…have contributed to armed militias around the world…Let’s stop trying to overthrow governments.  Let’s look at the real situation here.  Interventions…are themselves a threat to our security.”

Kucinich asked Kennedy a question which he said he could not answer then.  Kucinich then asked Kennedy how many of shoulder-to-air missiles are “still loose in Libya.” Kennedy could not answer.  Wood said the number is “between 10,000 and 20,000.”  Wood said that Al Qaeda was more firmly established in the region than before the Libyan civil uprising.

Chaffetz asked Nordstrom if Nordstrom’s pay was increased after “the danger was rising,” to which Nordstrom agreed.  Chaffetz asked Nordstrom if the buildings in Benghazi or Tripoli met certain standards, to which Nordstrom said “no.”  “That was the main security issue…” Nordstrom said.  Chaffetz said that on September 1, a high alert for Libya was issued.  Chaffetz asked Wood if he asked for more personnel.  Wood said he worked with Nordstrom to secure more personnel.  During a second request for an extension, Amb. Kretz, Stevens’ predecessor, reportedly received “conflicting signals” about deploying the SST.  Wood said that the misunderstanding was resolved.

Chaffetz asked Nordstrom if Lamb had ever asked Nordstrom not to ask for SST extensions.  Nordstrom said that on two occasions, he recalled that he was “specifically told, ‘You cannot ask for a security SST extension.'”

Rep. Steven Lynch then was given the floor.  Lynch said that “the general and global issue of security” needed to be addressed.  Lynch said he had just returned from Yemen, where “they are undergoing some structural changes in response to threats there.”  Lynch suggested that American embassies are located in “exposed” areas because of their date of construction.  He said that “in recent budgets, my Republican colleagues have suggested cuts to embassy security.”  “What would a few hundred million dollars mean to you in terms of providing that level of protection that every son and daughter of America deserves when they accept that post…?” Lynch asked Kennedy and Lamb.

Kennedy responded that “new facilities” could be built with the additional appropriation.  Lynch asked if there were “a task force” scrutinizing U.S. embassies.  Kennedy answered in the affirmative, but said that funding was limited.  Lynch asked Lamb the number of a rapid response team and Chaffetz objected, stating that the information was classified.  Lynch then yelled at Chaffetz, saying, “You’ve got to be kidding me.”

Issa stepped in by saying that unless State Department employees present were willing to get clearance to reveal the information, “there has previously been testimony as to the individuals who responded.”  “I would ask the gentleman to respect that, ” Issa said, meaning Lynch.

Kennedy then responded without using specific numbers.  He said that they are “very, very interested” in having the correct number of people and for “general security concerns.”

Nordstrom clarified who was under whose direction for the mission in Libya.

Rep. James Lankford asked Lamb where she had been working on September 11, 2012.  Lamb said she had been able to “follow in real time” what was happening.  Lankford asked if those evacuated from Benghazi had been in touch with her after the attack.  Lamb said, “No,” that she did not know the details until the remaining Benghazi staff were moved or taken to hospitals.  “They had just been through a horrific attack,” Lamb said.  She said that they needed “the comfort” of coming down from what had happened.

Lankford said that the State Department was still testifying “five days later” that “they didn’t know what happened” in Benghazi.  He asked Lamb if she knew “pretty quickly” what had happened.  “No, sir, it was not clear…it was a very large compound…it happened so fast when they rushed through the gate…”

Lankford asked if the video having been blamed as the cause was “the best” that the State Department could do five days later.  “The testimony seems to be conflicting today,” Lankford said to Lamb.  “You were aware of what had happened, but five, six, seven days later, the White House press secretary was giving the same report…”

“I can’t seem to put all these pieces togetrher,” Lankford said.  Kennedy said that “multiple reports” were coming out, including that “there were protests. I will not go any farther than that, and then things evolved.  Period,”  Kennedy said.  Issa asked Kennedy why he wouldn’t go on, and Kennedy said because it was “open session.”  Issa said that he would arrange for a closed session with Kennedy if he would agree.

Kennedy said that they could not “precipitously reconcile multiple” versions of what had happened.  Issa said that on Tuesday, he had asked Kennedy for a 50-minute “tape,” which apparently was “turned over by the government very quickly,” according to Issa.  Kennedy said that he had referred Issa’s request to those in government but was not in a position to make a recommendation about whether or not the video should be turned over.  Issa said that he did not know about the tape until Tuesday.  Cummings asked Issa whether or not “we” wanted to “interfere” with an ongoing investigation, to which Issa responded that they should have had the video “today” for the hearing.

Issa asked Kennedy if it were true that the State Department would have no objection to the committee “having” the tape.  Kennedy deferred to law enforcement.

Issa deferred to Rep. Jim Cooper of Tennessee, who said that “Sometimes these terrible incidents are not covered as they should be” and read an “Honor Roll of the Fallen” consisting of 56 military deaths under President Ronald Reagan.  All were killed at the hands of terrorists in El Salvador, Beirut, Cyprus, Greece, Germany, the Persian Gulf, Barcelona, mentioning Capt. William Edward Nordeen, whose story was told by Walter Francis Fitzpatrick, III.

Cooper thanked the State Department personnel and Lt. Col. Wood for their “service and sacrifice.”  His time then expired.

Rep. Paul Gosar then spoke and gave honor to those deceased on September 11.  Gosar said that Lamb had said that “things were going so great” that security was able to be reduced in Libya.  Gosar asked Wood if “things were going that great” in Libya and asked him to describe the situation form his point of view.  Wood indicated that the situation was volatile and that people worked together to face “lawless situations.”  Wood mentioned insurgent activity, assassinations and “no control of the borders.”  He said that weapons could be found “by anyone in Libya.”

Wood said he became accustomed to “celebratory gunfire” from attacks.  He said that “targeted attacks” rose in number while he was there.  “The SST, as it had been originally conceived, was still in need…”  Gosar referenced a report of 230 incidents of violence in Libya prior to September 11.  Wood confirmed that the British consulate had “moved out” as a result.”

There was an attack on the International Red Cross as well as Facebook threats on the U.S. embassy.  “The Red Cross was attacked by rocket-propelled grenades in early June,” Wood said.  At that point, Wood said that the U.S. embassy was “the last flag flying.”  “The country team was left with no options at that point…the resources had been withdrawn; the decision to not renew the SST…but I urged them to do something and anything…” Wood said.

Issa then asked to speak.  He confirmed that neither Wood nor Nordstrom was in Libya on September 11.  He asked what the “marginal difference” was between everyone having gotten out of the embassy or “only half” getting out.  “Would two more armed agents have made a difference?” he asked.  Wood answered that “superior weapons and superior tactics” would have made the difference.  Issa asked Nordstrom if he agreed.  “Absolutely,” he said.  He was not concerned about Tripoli, where the SST had been located, he said.

Cummings then asked one more question.  Rep. Connolly then said that he had been a young soldier during the early 80s when many Americans had been killed in both military and non-military positions.  Connolly asked Wood if he had approached his “congressperson with his concerns” to determine if that were Rep. Chaffetz.  Connolly asked when Wood tried to reach Chaffetz.  Connolly asked Wood if he were aware that the Democrats had tried to contact him about his testimony today, to which Wood responded, “Yes.”  Connolly asked if Wood were “in any way encouraged or discouraged to talk to the Democrat side…” to which Wood said no.”

Connolly asked Kennedy if investigations were ongoing, and Kennedy said he could not say about the FBI investigation.  Connolly then said, “So we’re having this hearing as those investigations have not completed their work…” to which Kennedy said, “Yes, sir.”

Connolly said that he visited Tripoli years ago and asked Nordstrom if security has been a problem there inherently, to which Nordstrom answered in the affirmative.

Kennedy told Connolly that State Department personnel were “replacing” military people in Libya.  “We were replacing them as we do all over the world…” Kennedy said.

Rep. Labrador of Utah spoke next, asking Kennedy to explain “how it was that on September 12, you told congressional aides that you believed it was a terrorist attack,” to which Kennedy said that “I told them that it was my personal opinion…”  “How can you claim today that you would have made the same statements as Amb. Rice on TN?” Labrador said.  Kennedy said he had “the same information” as Rice did, referring to “multiple reports.”  Kennedy said that “evolving reports” were generated after the attacks.  Issa jumped in and asked Kennedy for “his best estimation” of the reports.  Kennedy declined to answer.  Labrador asked if there was “one report” that contradicted the official first report.  Kennedy said he could not go “into the nature of classified reports” which he “cannot do in this session.”

Labrador asked Wood and Norstrom if their knowledge of the Libya situation caused them to determine that it was a terrorist attack.  Wood said that he “almost expected the attack to come…we were the last flag flying…it was only a question of time.”  Nordstrom said that a “brigade” came to his mind such as Ansar Al-Sharia, which he and Wood had been “concerned about.”

Labrador then said that Rice’s statements on September 16 that the intelligence pointed to a spontaneous event in Libya were “outrageous.”

Rep. Danny Davis then spoke, quoting Amb. Stevens as having described his mission in Libya as “exciting.”  Kennedy agreed, saying that Benghazi was “the cradle of the revolution,” and that the U.S. “wished” for Libya to build a democracy.  “The State Department has to go into harm’s way,” Kennedy said.  “We cannot stay out of the action.”  Davis asked Nordstrom to describe some of the “challenges” in analyzing security risks while allowing the mission to interact with the local population.

Nordstom answered that “that was one of the tensions that we always had.”  He said “there was not open warfare at all times in Libya.  It was fairly permissive during the daytime…It was sort-of a joke…we had a saying that you would be fine until you’re not.”  Nordstrom said that when he asked for more resources, he was repelled.  He said it was his job to “come up with a plan.”

At 2:52 p.m., The Post & Email’s coverage is ceasing, although the hearing still continues.

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Editor’s Note:  Additional information from the hearing can be found at the House Oversight Committee’s website.