THIS PASTOR IS DRAWING A LINE IN THE SAND
by Kathleen Gotto
(Sept. 8, 2010) — Considering all those who are coming out against the Florida pastor exercising his First Amendment right, I do not want to count myself as being in their number. I say, “Burn, baby, burn!” Of course, nice Christians and normal conservatives just would not do such a thing, because we are mostly peaceful and law-abiding citizens and want to live and let live. However, I say, “Why not exercise a Constitutional right to protest against the evil that was perpetrated against us on 9/11 and continues to be perpetrated against us with the victory mosque the Muslims want to build in NYC and other inroads they are making in our country?”
When has anyone yet stood up to the Islamist terrorists? At the center of Sept 11 was the core teaching of Islam that states that the world must either convert to Islam, pay a kafir tax, or be killed. “Moderate” Muslims are those who have not read or followed all the precepts of Islam. From a terrorism seminar I attended a few days ago, I learned that moderate Muslims view terrorists as the “gold standard.” Puts a different perspective on things, doesn’t it? It all comes from their damnable, evil Quran. If this pastor is prevented in any way from exercising his rights, it will be a HUGE victory for Islam and will further embolden them to make even deeper incursions into the very fabric of our society. This pastor is drawing a line in the sand. Whether or not it is something any of us would do, he is taking on Islam. Do we cower in fear because “Oh, no, now there will be repercussions,” or do we engage the enemy who is already here among us, and drive home the message that we will NOT be intimidated, we will NOT be cowed, we will NOT fear what they will do, and we WILL push back! If Muslims want to burn the Bible, let them. What a sweet fragrance would rise to the heavens!
Listen folks, American citizens are at more risk than our military if all hell breaks loose over this. Why? Because we are not armed and trained as our military are and terrorists can cause more harm here at home in a large shopping center, a children’s nursery, churches, synagogues, etc. There would be widespread panic and unspeakable pain and suffering here at home right in front of our eyes. It is a horrible thing to hear of the devastation our troops face on the battlefield. That horror would be multiplied ten times over with homegrown killing of the innocent.
If anyone believes there will not be another terrorist attack here, he or she is living in denial. Not burning the Quran will not prevent the next terrorist attack. The terrorists need no provocation for their evil deeds. Most Christians just do not understand, or even want to understand, the barbaric, maniacal, and evil-driven precepts of Islam. Muslims are blinded by the god of this age, and if we can show them a way out of their bondage (that is what it is), then we should do so in any way with which God equips us. But for those who are intent on killing us, there is only one way to deal with them and that is to take them on.
Enough with appeasement and “political correctness.” William S. Lind (Whistleblower, June 2010) states in his article, “Who Stole our Culture?” that political correctness is really cultural Marxism at its core. The drive is to destroy Western culture and the Christian religion. So for Christians, I can only say, “Take off your blinders, wake up, rise up and join the battle!”
Any time our troops go to war (declared or undeclared presumably) the main reason is to fight for our freedoms and liberty in this country. So, if I am seeing this right, one of those freedoms is the right to your own religious beliefs and the expression of them. What hypocrisy that the Sec of Def himself calls a country pastor and tries to convince him that if he carries out the expression of his faith (the right of which the military is supposedly fighting to preserve) he will jeopardize our troops in the MidEast. I always have and always will support our troops, but the military leadership, including Gates and Petraeus, have in essence declared our military strength to be so weak and ill-prepared to deal with the enemy they are fighting that the actions of one little country pastor puts them in jeopardy. What kind of leadership is that? If our troops are fighting for our liberties here at home and someone exercises them and it is perceived to bring harm to our military, bring them home for crying out loud!
Never have I felt such shame and embarrassment of my country as I do now. We talk out of both sides of our mouth, give aid and comfort to our enemies by siding with them, play defense to keep a usurper installed in the presidency, castigate and even prosecute the supporters and defenders of our Constitution, and have put this whole nation at risk.
I hope Pastor Jones does not cave in to all the pressure. The hordes of hell have been set loose on that man, and for that reason alone, he should stand firm and do what he feels his faith dictates. If he backs down on this, make no mistake about it: it will not stop terrorism, but will encourage even more terrorist activities against Americans. Appeasement is a ravenous beast which cannot be satiated. What a slippery slope America finds herself on. If terrorists win this one, the next one will be the building of the mosque under the threat of more violence if it is not done. When you hear Imam Rauf speak of impending violence if the mosque is not built, you will hear code-speak. IMO, his words are war instructions. Let that sink in.
You don’t deal with a bully by giving him what he wants. You bloody his nose and beat him to a pulp. We have no more warriors left in America. God help us, because there is no one else who will step up.
It’s on again.
…Jones said Musri “clearly, clearly lied to us.”
“Given what we are now hearing, we are forced to rethink our decision,” Jones said. “So as of right now, we are not canceling the event, but we are suspending it.”
Jones did not say whether the Quran burning could still be held Saturday, but he said he expected Musri to keep his word and expected “the imam in New York to back up one of his own men.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning
Also in that article is a little about Trump’s offer to buy the property just to end the controversy. His offer was denied, too, of course.
From the article – “Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell confirmed that Gates called Jones about 4 p.m. EST Thursday — shortly before the pastor’s announcement. During the “very brief” call, Gates expressed “his grave concern that going forward with this Quran burning would put the lives of our forces at risk, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan,” Morrell said.
Morrell said earlier that the decision to issue a personal appeal was not easy because it could provoke other extremists “who, all they want, is a call from so-and-so.” After Gates’ call to Jones, Morrell said the secretary’s “fundamental baseline attitude about this is that if that phone call could save the life of one man or woman in uniform it was a call worth placing.”
Would it be worth it to Secretary of Defense Gates to allow LTC Lakin discovery of Obama’s records in his defense during his Court Martial in order to stop protesters from bunring Korans? Would this perhaps “save the life of one man or woman in uniform?” Perhaps we all need to go to Fort Meade and threaten to burn some Korans.
Don’t know what Pastor Jones got in return for calling off the burning of the Koran, but in a good negotiation, you get something of value when you give something of value. It looks to me like he may have gotten punked. People just mouthe what they hear about muslims having a right to build their mosque there in NYC. That is not the complete picture. The ACLJ has a lawsuit against the muslim developer (felon that he is) to stop the mosque, because the NYC landmark commission gave approval for them to build it by ignoring their own rules and procedures for declaring a building a landmark, and refused to designate the building where the plane’s landing gear crashed as a historical site. That is where the muslims hope to build their victory mosque. Make no mistake about it, that’s what it’ll be if it is allowed to be built. That same landmark commission has refused to allow the building of the Greek Orthodox church which was destroyed on 9/11. You may want to inform those who would argue about the “right” the muslims have to build that mosque on 9/11 territory about the facts. The ACLJ doesn’t take cases unless they are pretty confident they can win it.
More hypocrisy: It is just sickening that thousands of Bibles that were shipped to Afghanistan for our troops were ordered to be burned by the U.S. President so as not to offend the muslims there. So the take-away from all this is that it is fine to burn Bibles, but not the Koran. It is okay to insult and denigrate Christians and destroy their Holy Book because why? Have the man sitting as the putative U.S. President, our military leaders, politicians and talking heads declared that we now have a State religion and it is Islam? God help us.
everybody should threaten to burn a koran unless obama releases his long-form birth certificate!
that’ll put barry in a pickle! and make him look like a bigger idiot!
(spread the idea if you like it). :))
With all due respect, it’s quite insulting to suggest anyone who opposes burning the Quran is an appeaser or pollyanish or intimidated by Muslims. Not much different than Obots calling anyone who disagrees with Obama a racist. I’m sorry some people can’t see that we do understand the threat, we simply think there is a better way to make a statement.
I have no use for shallow and superficial gestures that only create more problems. I want solutions. I’ve read several positive, proactive, productive alternatives that would make an even grander statement… without insulting anyone, nor putting anyone’s life in harm’s way for our own selfish “statement.” Sinking to the enemies’ level is not one of those.
It’s still a free country. Let Preacher Jones do as he will. I’m just sorry he chooses to squander his freedom is such destructive and hateful ways.
The reason I came back actually was to mention this Preacher Jones is not only associated with the Westboro Church (which torments and persecutes the families of our fallen soldiers at their funerals), he also supported Al Gore. I’m not so sure this isn’t a Democrat trap being set, but I’m not sure many will care… Take it for what you think it’s worth.
Mia, not that it would make any difference for Pastor Jones’ right to burn the Quran (which now appears he has called off) why would you state without attribution that he is “associated with the Westboro Church”. What is your proof? That comment in and of itself knocks you off the high road you attempted to take.
At the entrance to Trinity United off of Northwest 53rd Avenue, the Westboro group also was joined by about 30 members of the Dove World Outreach Center, said Gainesville police monitoring the protest. Many were wearing the shirt with the words “Islam is of the Devil,” the same words on a sign that members had posted outside their church in July of 2009.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100418/articles/100419422?p=all&tc=pgall
Former church members who have worshiped under senior pastors Terry and Sylvia Jones are speaking out about what they describe as financial abuses at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville and its sister church in Cologne, Germany, founded by Terry Jones in 1981 and closed in 2008.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090719/ARTICLES/907191005
Click on the “How did Dove World Outreach Center get started?” link from that page for more.
Jones is no angel and in some ways his church is more like a cult than Christianity, at least to me. None of that negates his right to free speech.
To give credit where it’s due, Dove Outreach Center was also among the many churches who protested Florida CPS on behalf of Rifqa Barry, the teenaged Christian convert who was at risk of being returned to the home she ran away from home because she feared her father would follow through on his threats to kill her.
PS: I don’t know for sure about Dove supporting Gore, but Westboro sure did.
http://www.lcrga.com/news/Fred-Phelps-Al-Gore-Westboro-Baptist-Church-God-Hates-Fags/200010251159.shtml
So much for Westboro being “extreme right-wing radicals,” eh?
Speaking of Westboro Baptist Church…
Westboro Baptist Church to burn Qurans if Dove doesn’t
http://www.ocala.com/article/20100909/ARTICLES/100909743/1412?Title=Westboro-Baptish-Church-to-burn-Qurans-if-Dove-doesn-t
The reason I came back actually was to mention this Preacher Jones is not only associated with the Westboro Church (which torments and persecutes the families of our fallen soldiers at their funerals), he also supported Al Gore. I’m not so sure this isn’t a Democrat trap being set, but I’m not sure many will care… Take it for what you think it’s worth.
Mia, I’m quite aware of both. One doesn’t have to agree with Jones or with Quran-burning to support his right to do so.
It’s all academic now, anyway, as Jones has cancelled his Quran-burning event.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/quran_burning
Please don’t get too excited about Jones having struck an agreement to cancel his event in exchange for relocation of the Ground Zero Victory Mosque until you hear it from Imam Rauf’s mouth. If you read the article carefully, Jones says a deal is struck, while the Imam Muhammad Musri says he is opposed to the Ground Zero Victory Mosque location and has agreed to fly to NY with Jones to have a meeting with Rauf about relocating it.
PS: If you knew the history of Islam, the history of Islam’s drive for global domination since its beginning in the 7th century, and the impact Islam has had on non-Muslim nations, particularly Jewish and Christian nations (and/or nations friendly and welcoming to Jews and Christians), you’d realize that all peaceful solutions and statements are viewed by Islam as appeasement. When your enemy thinks like a barbaric savage whose idea of conflict resolution is that whoever’s left standing at the end of the conflict resolved the issue, “solutions” are limited.
I would like to share with the readers why I wrote this piece. First of all, I was compelled to. There is no other explanation; it just poured out. Second of all, and more important, is there is a huge vacuum in the comprehension of so many Americans as to what is really taking place here in our country. We have been under attack by Islam for a long time, covertly for many years prior to the overtly violent attacks on our troops overseas and then here at home on 9/11.
The end game for Islam is submission by those they are seeking to conquer. Ask yourself: are you willing to submit to Islam and sharia law? are you willing for your children and their children to submit to Islam and sharia law? Do you have any idea how barbaric and evil the teachings of the Quran are? If you don’t there are numerous books available where you can educate yourself on what we are facing here. Borrow a Quran from the library and have it available as you do your research to verify the expose’ of the writers.
It is difficult for us who have lived in freedom for so long to even begin to comprehend what it would mean to live under the bondage of Islam and sharia law. And I think that is part of the problem with peoples’ reaction to Pastor Jones drawing a line in the sand by burning that damnable book. From even my Christian friends, I hear the same pious drivel about turning the other cheek (and there is a time and place for that) or some other platitude. Maybe that should not be too surprising since cultural Marxism has invaded the church on many levels. Look at how many mainline denominations have fallen victim to the homosexual indoctrination. It is absolutely sickening to see what the church has become, so it is no wonder Christians have not been taught to think critically and logically, or to study the Bible on a deep level. Too many churches today are now more involved in entertainment and have bought into feel-good theology and the overwhelming need to not hurt anyone’s feelings. Rubbish! All that does is make such folks an easy target for submission and indoctrination.
Pastor Jones likely had no doubt he would unleash forces which have been put on hold temporarily. As I consider the outcry and hypocrisy of the Marxist talking heads and MSM, I have come to the conclusion that we owe a debt of gratitude to Pastor Jones, because by his stand, the real enemies of America and our freedom have been unmasked. I’m not talking about those misguided souls who just want to be happy and make peace with everyone; I’m talking about politicians and other public figures who have jumped into this fray.
With this book burning (it MUST go on as planned, one way or the other!) the real soul and pulse of America will be displayed for the whole world to see, because it all goes back to our liberties, freedom and rights found in our Constitution.
We started to come awake during the election of 2008 with the ineligibility of a dual-citizen (not natural born as required) who lied, schemed and was assisted into office by numerous Marxist supporters. In the nearly two years since then, people have been made aware of our Constitution and the requirements laid out in Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 for a person to become President. And we now know that the man occupying the highest office in our land is a usurper, because he is not eligible to hold that position. That is the backdrop for what we are facing now with yet another assault on our Constitution and the rights delineated in the First Amendment.
Now that a good portion of the country is awake, we stand horrified by what the Marxists have done on our very own watch. And it is those same Marxists, hypocrites and deceivers that they are, who are beating the air waves protesting the First Amendment right of Pastor Jones to burn the Quran. It is the Marxist talking heads and MSM who will fan the flames to fever pitch as 9/11 draws near, demanding that Jones forfeit his right to express himself, and thus provide tremendous aid and comfort to our enemies. It is time for America to grow up, man up, and stand up. Support Pastor Jones or sorrowfully wish someday that you had done so.
I wanted to read all of the comments to the article before I weighed in with my two cents. First of all, I want to establish who I am. I am a Christian, an American, and a Texan, in that order. I have no political affiliations because I believe in personal responsibility and don’t feel the need to ask for or take anything from a government entity, local, state, or federal. I also don’t believe anyone else has the right to have a say over anything I say or do. That is between me and my maker. I will be burning a Quran along with the good preacher as a sign of support for his “right” to live as he pleases and do as he pleases in our FREE country. The problem that a lot of writers to this article have is that they are appeasers who have forgotten history.
Jews and Christians have been in a struggle with non-believers for thousands of years. These non-believers have been known as Romans, Egyptians, Muslims, barbarians and many other names. What has separated Jews and Christians from the non-believers is the belief in one supreme being, God, who will ultimately judge each of us. Some periods of history have the non-believers killing and enslaving Believers; other periods have Believers fighting back to establish a peace. The Holy Wars began because Muslims overran all Christian countries in the middle East trying to eradicate the “infidels”. Christians fought back and re-took the land.
These battles have been fought for ages but not by ALL Christians or by ALL non-believers. Another example is our own fight for Independence. First, it was a war fought to remove the yolk of an oppressor who placed himself above all other Christians as the only person who had the ear of God. Second, less than twenty percent of Americans were involved in the war. The war was fought to free all Americans from that oppression, not the select few who fought. The Declaration of Independence stated those facts and the Constitution sealed the contract.
What I see here is a diverse group of people with different ideas about how to approach the same problem, namely the loss of those freedoms that our founding fathers fought and died for. I respect each and every viewpoint and will protect each person’s right to express those views. However, we are in a life or death struggle with an enemy who does not respect those God-given rights. This has been proven time and again throughout history. This evil must always be beaten back through strength and determination. Reasoning and logic has never succeeded and never will. The good General Petraeus may indeed beat back the barbarians in his battle but the war will not be won because the barbarians have infiltrated our forces and we have already been neutralized as shown by his attitude on the burning of a book.
We, as a nation, stand at the edge of a precipice with one foot stepping out to the fiery abyss. It is time for even the pacifists and appeasers, of which there are many, to recognize this and move to save our great nation or we will have NO nation in a very short time. I, for one, will fight and die if needed.
Now here is someone who has “manned up”!
How do we reckon the Q-burn with this?
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/
Isn’t it amazing how fast Congress and Patreaus can “hear us now” that the fuss is all about the muslims.
Well, IMAM Raouf has done more to make dislike him and his ilk than ever. That is not bridge building.
Giving in to the mosque and Muslim intimidation is saying yes to Shariah. Bring our troops home and let them protect our shores from invasion.
Kittycat, I agree 100%. Thank you for presenting the loyal opposition so eloquently.
I also like Kathy’s idea. We only give the fanatics more power when we play into their game. It’s time to change the rules and fight on sacred ground. The Muslim faith has been corrupted and hijacked… much the same way the Bible has been corrupted and hijacked throughout the centuries… and much like our Constitution has been corrupted and hijacked… and for the same reason: power over the masses.
Christians, Jews and Muslims all trace their history back to Abraham and Moses. Allah — Jehovah — Yahweh — God — all are the same entity. Mohamed himself declared Jesus a prophet of God, and Mary the greatest woman who ever lived. God doesn’t change, only people do. Many faithful Muslims have spoken out against the mosque, but they get no attention. Many Muslim Americans have fought — and died — in our war against terrorists (not Islam).
Sure, we have a Constitutional right to burn the Quran, just like we have the right to burn the Bible or the Constitution or the flag. But it will serve no practical purpose, it will not stop one terrorist act (and may very well drive even more terrorist acts), and it’s a childish temper tantrum at best. Symbolism over substance. And at worst, it knowingly and willfully incites more violence and more blood shed. That cannot and will not serve God’s will. Therefore, it does not serve our best interests either.
Mia,
Allah is not Yahweh. Yahweh is not Jehovah either.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
Check out Allah the moon-god.
And Muhammad was about the 8th century A.D., who was the founder of the Muslim religion. Note how late it was.
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
Study about it. It will blow you away!
We give them more power when we appease them.
Did you know that the Christian Crusades were a response to increasing Muslim domination of lands that had been those of Christians? For 400 years prior, Christians took the high road, fought on sacred ground and lost those same sacred grounds. Finally, Christians had enough when they saw they would, eventually, be driven to near extinction, with the few left alive living as dhimmis under Islam, meaning they’d pay taxes to Muslims for being allowed to breathe but would not be allowed to practice or teach Christianity.
Although we’ve been told repeatedly that Muslims worship the same god that Jews and Christians worship and all can trace their history back to Abraham, both are simply not true.
kittycat has already suggested that you read Prophet of Doom by Craig Winn. He’s placed his entire book online (at the link kittycat provided), where it can be read at no charge.
Althouth I read all of Winn’s book, Prophet of Doom, and use it all the time as a reference source, I also refer to and recommend Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch. Start with Islam 101, where you’ll find a condensed explanation of the Crusades as a bloody but “belated Western response to centuries of jihad than as an unprovoked, unilateral attack.” http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
At the Islam 101 page, there’s also a link to Jihad Watch’s translation of the Quran.
I agree with “kittycat”. As much as I agree with the others’ comments about our rights and our injustices being vindicated, we must act as the nation of reason, and more importantly, one that holds the Truth. How about this pastor going to the 9/11 site and instead reading from OUR HOLY BOOK, the Bible, and calling on Muslims to repent and turn to Christ? Maybe he is actually taking the low road in burning a book, which effectively does nothing for us and just plays into the enemy’s hands, rather than hitting them between the eyes with the “sword of truth”? Just a thought.
Those that just want to get along and take the moral high ground, need to understand that we are not dealing with people that have the capacity to reason. These people are indoctrinated from birth, these ideals are ingrained in them, they cannot see past what has been beat into their heads and hearts; they simply cannot be reasoned with – it’s like trying to undo years and years of brainwashing.
I agree with this article, we need to take a stand. As Americans we understand we are a country of tolerance, but tolerance can only go so far, and then it is no longer tolerance, but submission into THEIR ideals and control. Where is that line? I think we are getting dangerously close to it, if we aren’t already there.
I’m not a fan of burning any book, but I support this pastor in his message to the terrorists and I hope he is not forced into submission to abandon his plan.
Gen. Petraeus’ statement is a perfect opportunity for helping LTC Lakin.
A threat to organize a public burning of Quran (as close as possible to the building where Lakin’s case is being tried), unless the court allows discovery to proceed, would put both Petraeus and Obama to the test. This would make the trial much more visible to the public.
If you like this idea please spread it around.
I had a similar thought a few days ago. Perhaps the most effective way to get public pressure for Obama to open his records is to use passive protest as effectively employed by Mohandas Gandhi. If LTC Lakin is placed in jail, it would not be a bad idea for a group to go on a high-visibility hunger strike or something similar until he is released and until Obama shows his records. I could use to lose some weight, but I’m not sure I’m personally willing to go that far :-).
Burning the Koran would certainly bring publicity as we have seen. Perhaps Gen. Petraeus would convince his superiors to give LTC Lakin discovery in exchange for the group not burning the Koran. I mean, he’s really concerned about his troupes’ safety isn’t he?
Can someone tell me why it is that we aren’t to blame all Muslims when Muslim Jihadists commit mass murder and other acts of terrorism against Americans but when a group of a few dozen Americans burn the Quran, each and every American, particularly our soldiers in the Middle East, are held accountable and therefore face risk of retaliation by Muslims?
In America, we have the right to burn korans. If you don’t like that right , return to a country where you don’t have that right. You will never change this one!
And just as true that in America, we have the right not to support this. I surely don’t support them burning Bibles. However, I can’t control what they do. What I can do is control what I do. Why would I want to take my liberty and use it as an instrument to provoke and revile at others? I see so many people screaming, Freedom, freedom and yet they have no idea what it means. In their minds, they want freedom to hurt others.
Also, it would be better for people to debate them on the Koran. Not burn it. It’s obvious that it’s a hodepodge of various things like parts of the Talmud, parts of the NT with no chronological order to it.
We’re to love our neighbors as ourselves. We’re to love our enemies. Yahweh didn’t promise that loving your enemy is an easy task, did he?
Mat 7:12 Therefore, all things, whatever you desire that men should do to you, so also you should do to them; for this is the Law (Torah) and the Prophets (cf. Luke 6:31).
I’m against burning it because of my stated reasons. Also, burning the book will accomplish absolutely nothing. It may all sound good in human reasoning, for example, you did this to me, so I’m going to do this to you, but it’s not how mature adults act with reasoning abilities. When you look at how their women and children are treated, thing is, you want to get them out of this mess. It is a mess, and they are begin murdered day by day. The men treat their animals better than their women. Then seek to help them get out of this instead of burning that stupid book. Burning that book will not help those trying to leave that apostasy religion. Try to see to help them get out by teaching them the truth. It’s not book-burning that is an answer to anything.
I understand and acknowledge the points raised in this piece but, nevertheless, Pastor Terry should not burn the books. That is what the Nazis did.
Pastor Terry should adopt a ‘holier than thou’ position. He should contrast our tolerance of, for example, the protest burning of the Stars and Stripes, with the intolerance of the Muslims who have threatened violence over the proposed burning of the Quoran.
Pastor Terry should auction the books on eBay and give the money raised to charity, including the flood relief charities working in Pakistan.
He can then claim a moral victory.
Nazis burning books was government censorship. If our government demanded that the Quran or any other books be burnt, I’d be outraged by it.
On the othe hand, Jones and his followers burning books, while in poor taste to most, is neither cencorship nor a threat to free speech. On the contrary, it’s Jones’ way of practicing his free speech.
Paul, as a Mother of a warrior, there is a point when we have to stop cowering to the threats of violence by radical Islam. Our military has been sent to fight against the same ideology that threatens the United States today. What dishonor do we show to our young men and women who serve so bravely against this ideology, by cowering everytime radicals make a threat? Our military have always been in harms way and further so by being forced to follow PC rules of engagement to placate Islam. The Bible, sent to our soldiers earlier this year was burned by the military command as they feared the Muslims would be offended yet these same people are telling us to burn the Koran is wrong?
For anyone that thinks radicals will play nice if we are nice to them, look at Europe. They want total domination and submission to Islam. Yet recently our government held a “special session” for Muslim leaders to tell them how to take advantage of US Tax Dollars while avoiding the “red tape” , a full list of attendees and their terrorist affiliations is on Judicial Watch.
Paul, while I truly understand your concern, what greater sign of disrespect can we show our troops than for them to come home to find a Victory Mosque near the very site that sent them to war and the cowering to radical Muslim ideology. Our troops deserve better and as Americans we need to show the same bravery as they do, to stand against this vile ideology.
Well said, I agree with you.
I’m personally against burning the Quran because it’s a waste of good outhouse paper. But since burning the Quran is what they want to do, I do hope Jones and his followers at least BBQ some good pork ribs instead of letting a good fire go to waste.
From what I have studied, Allah is indeed a false deity, yes. However, I have to ask myself this: What would Paul do?
I know this is a little bit different because he’s encountering pagan statues and various images, but if you study this, he didn’t go through there breaking down their false images. Note this:
Act 17:16 But awaiting them in Athens, Paul’s spirit was pained within him, seeing the city full of images.
Study the rest. Now, it’s different if Paul was given the charge by Yahweh to go and tear it all down, but he wasn’t given that charge. In places in the OT, the Israelites were given the charge to tear down the pagan images, etc., and totally get rid of it, which they mostly failed doing many times.
Even though Paul was pained about this, he was diplomatic and tried to win converts and was so eloquent about it. He didn’t go in there and try to raise conflict and total strife. Strife is anti-Scriptural.
Paganism is just demonism, totally, and so are the pagan idols and images. Paul knew this too. No, you’re not going to win over tons of people, it’s just the people who listen, the ones who open their ear to hear.
So what good is burning the Koran going to do but make others mad and cause strife? That’s not how you win friends, win others to come out of that religious system. You also do not want to become like others who burn Bibles for fun, which is what their religions does many times.
kittycat: You have reversed the whole meaning of the scripture. Paul went to Athens – the people of Athens did not come to him as the Muslims have done to us. Of course Paul didn’t “tear it all down” because he was instructed to be a peaceful visitor to their country. The Muslims have come to our country and they are “tearing it all down.” They are the invaders and have been instructed to convert or kill. Paul’s mission was to preach peacefully. The Muslim’s mission is to invade, terrorize, destroy, dominate and kill. We do not go to their country with any such mission. Don’t you see the difference?
It is precisely your kind of thinking that has put us in the position we are now in. We are told to “turn the other cheek,” “be peaceful” etc. etc. and look what has happened because we have done that. In fact, we must use whatever force we have available to stop the Muslim invasion. Do you think Jesus would condone the peaceful acceptance of Satan if he were to invade a country and demand its citizens to either follow him or die? Or do you think he would have told the people to fight, and to fight as hard as they can? You praise Paul for not doing exactly what the Muslims are doing.
“What good is burning the Quran?” you ask. And I ask, What good is not burning the Quran? What good is accepting the Quran? What good is it to revere the Quran? Satan has his foot in the door and he is laughing at you.
If you are going to quote scripture that is all well and good, but you must put it in context to what is happening today. Paul went peacefully to Athens to peacefully teach about and convert the people to Christianity – the Muslims have come in terror to force us to embrace their religion. There is no scripture that even suggests Jesus would want us to accept anything the Muslim religion teaches, nor does it say to accept it or even tolerate it. However, it very clearly instructs us to reject all of it.
Morning kittycat,
I found your comments of interest. I appreciated your approach to the question. Yes, Paul did exercise diplomacy in Athens. Historically the Israelites of old were astounding warriors, and during this time period a nation was established according to their birthright, via the Abrahamic and Mosiac covenants.
By contrast, Paul had no standing, as you pointed out, in a Pagan city, outside the land. Legally he had no jurisdiction and would have been arrested for causing yet another Jewish pandemonium! lol
The dispensational lesson and contrast is that there is a time (Hebrews 1:1-2) to be
diplomatic (when outside your land) and yet another time to stand up, push back, and defend your land.
You are correct, we will not win over tons of Muslims, just the ones that listen. But the problem is listening is not part of their agenda. Matter of fact is, according to their beliefs, the ones who actually do listen, are guilty of disobedience to the Koran, and should be killed, as infidels.
We have been more than tolerant. The strife is coming from them, not us. The right to defend our land, families, and religious freedom must stand as right.
Thank your for your ever so interesting Pauline view. While I appreciated your approach, your conclusion was erroneous.
It is now time to stand or we will lose exactly what we have given to those of the Islamic faith, who reside in OUR land, and that is our freedom and our lives.
In His love,
Susan
BTW, Pastor Jones’ website is now down: http://www.doveworld.org It’d be a toss-up as to who did it. Our own dear government, or the jihadists. Kinda hard to tell the difference anymore…..
First of all, you’ll never convince me that a loving and compassionate God would ever condone Sharia Law or recognize the teachings of the Koran as a legitimate religious doctrine. In the Catholic religion, the worst punishment for violating the rules of the church or teachings of the Bible is excommunication from the church, not being buried up to your waist and stoned to death! I’d classify Sharia Law more of a political form of government than a religion and anybody who’s feeling guilty for criticizing this religion is misguided!
Why is it that those who frequent this website clearly understands that our Federal Government is broken. It has been totally turned on its head by the Progressives, and we are now being governed from the top down rather than from the People up, as originally envisioned by our Founding Fathers, yet they can’t see that any religion that that takes the law into its own hands is really not a religion at all, but a form of fanatical religious theocracy.
Don’t be fooled by the word “religion”. If you’re a Christian they would just as soon cut off your head! Wake up America!
For God and Country
Too late to back out now , it would be considered summiting to Islam , that’s why they are making such a big deal out of it.
I am going to send Pastor Jones a donation and ask him to write “courtesy of Nick Berg” inside a dozen of them. This is a First Amendment issue whether we like the idea of burning anyone’s holy book or not. Muslims may consider the Quran a holy book, but it is anything but. When Nick Berg’s head was being sawed off while he screamed in agony, the Quran’s teachings were being carried out. I will never forget Nick’s screams, nor the U.S.S. Cole, nor the barracks where our Marines were slaughtered, nor 9/11, et al. Islam is more a political force than a religious one and Americans will deny that reality to our grave detriment. Burn the book, Pastor Jones; it may unleash the gates of hell, but then again, they already have been loosed. Most people just don’t know it.
“I am very concerned by the potential repercussions of the possible (Koran) burning. Even the rumor that it might take place has sparked demonstrations such as the one that took place in Kabul yesterday,” Petraeus said (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/06/petraeus-warns-churchs-koran-burning/)
Well, General Petraeus, should all Americans then voluntarily give up their free society and freedom to express opinions that may outrage others? The First Amendment to the Constitution is not needed to protect speech that everyone is ok with. It’s whole purpose is to protect speech that is endanger of being suppressed because someone finds it objectionable.
Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and David Petraeus need to understand that we must fight to protect what we in the West consider to be basic human rights. We can not back down in the face of intimidation and voluntarily surrender our rights in order to secure temporary safety.
Petraeus is right, that burning the Koran will stir up trouble. This is exactly why it should be done. We must stand up for our principles and say this is what we believe in and if you wish to attack us for our belief that free speech is a human right, then we will fight back. We will not surrender our freedoms either voluntarily or involuntarily.
After hearing Obama’s, Clinton’s, and Petraeus’s reaction to this issue, it is clear that we have the wrong people in charge of America’s future. We need people who actually believe in the Bill of Rights and who will strongly support people’s right to express their opinions even in the face of intimidation by those who wish to silence them.
If he backs down, they will have won again! How about the Ground Zero Mosque? Is religious tolerance only a one sided game? I don’t seem to remember hearing anybody complain about the scenes of Muslim’s celebrating their success at 9-11 and tramping on our American flag! It may not be the politically correct thing to do, but what’s good for the goose…..
In fact!…… I might look for a Quran of my own to burn!
For God and Country
Hmmmmmm, lets see if we can make some connections.
Ground zero Mosque. Protesters labeled bigots and intolerant. The US doesn’t deny the right of Imam Rauf to build the mosque because of private property rights. Legally he can build it, but its in bad taste, its insulting, its a slap in the face to the American people.
This Pastor wants to burn the Quran. He’s completely within his rights to do so. Even though its in bad taste, its insulting, its a slap in the face to the Muslim people.
People all around the US are demanding that he stop this effort. I’m all for that myself.
How many muslims are out there saying, ‘don’t build the mosque at gound zero. Can’t you see that its insulting to the American people? Must we provoke them any more?’
No, we won’t run down and murder an Islamist for burning our Bibles. But they certainly will give us a hell of a lot of grief for burning their Holy Book.
Could Dear Pastor just be trying to make a point? Time will tell.
Allah is a false god…
Muhammad is a false prophet…
The quran is a false book…
Why don’t we start a campaign to show them this that their Mohammed said.
St. Catherines Monastery in Sinai
The fathers of the Monastery visited Mohammed in Medina in 625 AD and requested for protection. Apparently, the request was favorably accepted and the so called Ahitname (which is a latinised version of the noun Ahed-nama), or immunity covenant was sent to them by the prophet Mohammed himself in 628 AD. The historic document states as under:
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
“No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (of Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”
Meanwhile they burn Christian churches all over the Muslim world. Discriminate againest Christians. Stone people to death. Cut the noses of women. Burn women to death. Rape women, remember 4 witnesses. Islam is a dangerous religion.
They are lost in the 11th century.
When General Petraeus asks that this not be done, and as the parent of a warrior in harms way, I defer to his judgement. In the words of Michael Yon, we are losing the media war. Anyone old enough to remember the war in Viet Nam and who followed the facts would understand that we had the war won but lost it because of actions at home. This act already has become a useful tool to the terrorist recruiting. This act will be the added provocation to inspire further attacks on our troops. This act, though within the Constitution, will bring an immediate and definite increase in casualties, both military and civilian, not only in the Middle East but world wide.
With a right comes responsibility. Under the 2nd amendment, we have the right to bear arms. We also have the responsibility to make sure the use of that right does not infringe on the lives and safety in the area of the use of those arms.
Attempting to equate the sacrifice of our military on our behalf as they willingly put their lives in absolute danger 24/7 with every step that they take , to the potential of another terrorist attack in the U.S. as a way of justifying ignoring the request of Gen. Petraeus is ridiculous.
If you are more qualified than the General, and I doubt that you are, then go for it. Know this though. The lives lost because your practicing your right to provoke the religiously insane fall directly on your shoulders. Make no mistake about it.
It’s highly likely most of us either have a loved one in the military or know of someone who is. However, how many Qurans were burned that caused the U.S.S. Cole to be blown up? How many Qurans were burned to cause the 1983 Beirut twin bombing of nearly 300 American and French military members? How many Qurans were burned that brought down, on American soil, the Twin Towers and killed nearly 3,000 people? And how many burned up Qurans were behind the attack on the Pentagon?
The Jihadists now know for a certainty that those “politically correct” Marxists that have permeated our cultural and governmental institutions have given them the keys to our cities. They don’t need bombings to destroy America when she is being destroyed from within by gullible and ignorant Marxists who now go by the name of “Democrat”. No, our enemies within are welcoming the Jihadists with open arms. After all that has been done to this country, Spain, Indonesia, London, etc. burning the Quran is something that should have been done years ago. However, better late than never to fight back.
One more thing: since when does a military general have any right to try to chill the First Amendment rights of an American citizen? In my opinion, the burning of the Quran is the least of the issues being raised over this.
Paul Michalak, Sr, I sincerely thank you and your son for your sacrifices for America and freedom and I do hope that your son returns to you alive and well.
If what Petraeus said about casualties increasing if Dove follows through with their Quran burning event is true, then every one of the troops should be brought home. Since the safety of our troops depends on compliance to Islam here at home, as if the troops are hostages or prisoners and so unable to protect themselves, then there’s something wrong with having them there. Not being a military strategist, I don’t know what that is. Perhaps it’s a lack of equipment, an inadequate number of troops, too meek a presence…I don’t know. What I do know is that we shouldn’t have to forfeit freedoms or censure ourselves at home for those who are being sent to protect those same freedoms. Something is wrong with this picture.
Whatever it is, please know that I don’t blame your son or any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan. But something is wrong.
AuntieMadder, re: [… If what Petraeus said about casualties increasing if Dove follows through with their Quran burning event is true, then every one of the troops should be brought home. Since the safety of our troops depends on compliance to Islam here at home, as if the troops are hostages or prisoners and so unable to protect themselves, then there’s something wrong with having them there. ]
Great point and goes to the heart of the issue with Petraeus trying to interject himself into the fray.
Paul M.
And how are you – or anyone else – going to know which deaths are caused by burning the Quran and which deaths are caused by the practice of the religion of insanity? How many deaths so far have been caused by burning the Quran? And my last question is how many deaths will be caused by our inaction? Members of the religion of insanity are pouring across our borders every day, and their only mission is our death and destruction. They hate us whether we burn the Quran or place it on our altars. We provoke the religiously insane every time we honor our God. Do you suggest we stop doing that, too?
You know my initial reaction to this was: “Good grief! Why does he want to provoke these radicals?” And after giving it some thought and reading this article, I began to realize that the more we cower, the more we give them the ability to impose their “rule” over us and the more we empower them. I’m thinking we need to stand with this pastor and/or at least devise ways of showing resistance ourselves. This is just nuts how they are taking over our freedoms! I’m starting to think of that news program, “Network” I think it was called: “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore.” That seems to be what happens when freedom-loving people are pushed up against the wall–shoot, even animals will fight when there’s no where else to run. Are we going to shrink back and wait until there is no one who will stand with us?
My thoughts exactly. Now I feel we need to push back also.