- Law Cases
by Sharon Rondeau
(May 10, 2010) — The Post & Email has completed a follow-up interview of Attorney Andy Martin upon his return from a trip to Hawaii during which he filed a lawsuit against Hawaii officials, charging them with concealing evidence under the guise of “executive privilege.” Mr. Martin also revealed his plans to become involved in the Lt. Col. Lakin case as well as what his additional research yielded.
A previous interview of Mr. Martin shortly after arriving in Hawaii can be found here.
MRS. RONDEAU: I read your news release of May 6 in which you said that you are charging Governor Linda Lingle with “suborning election fraud.” Could you talk a little more about that?
MR. MARTIN: If you go back and you read the statement that Fukino issued on October 31, 2008, she goes out of her way to be emphatic that nobody told her to do anything. She said that no one told her to treat Obama’s birth records any differently from anyone else’s. But obviously, going into a vault and finding an ancient document and then issuing a statement is treating it out of the ordinary. That action in itself was extraordinary, and it was intended to bolster Obama. Because the work that I and others like me were doing that was undermining Obama’s credibility…they rushed in at the last minute saying they’d checked into it, saying he was OK. Well, there was no need for that, because it’s not her job to do that, nor did anyone ask her to do it, we thought, because she claimed she did it on her own.
Now had it come out that Linda Lingle had issued that statement, it would have caused an uproar, because here’s the governor of Hawaii supposedly going into the archives and dusting off his old book of records and then bolstering Obama by saying he’s “legit,” but that is in effect what she has now said she did. If you listen to the Boteach interview, she takes the credit for it, if you can call it that. She says, “Well, I told her (Fukino) to do it, and I wanted it to be cleared up.” In other words, it’s all her instigation. Why was she instigating that when it wasn’t her job to do that and when she had Fukino lie and suggest that Fukino acted on her own? An essential part of this cover-up or crime, if it is one, is to conceal the identity of the initiating party.
By using Fukino as the cat’s paw, they were trying to imbue this activity with impartiality; she’s a doctor, she’s the head of the health department; she bolsters herself through her lack of political involvement. But in a sense, there was a firestorm building across the country over the last weekend about “Who is this man?” and she torpedoed it, and in a sense, torpedoed McCain. So she stabbed McCain in the back, not to say that McCain was behind any of this, because Grandpa McCain was snoozing on his porch, but those of us who had questions about Obama were successfully raising those questions…not that I was supporting McCain; I really didn’t like either one of them. But I was helping McCain more than Obama. But then she secretly torpedoed McCain and bolstered Obama by having this endorsement come out of the blue. There wasn’t a press conference; there wasn’t any warning; there was no way to answer it.
MRS. RONDEAU: How do you think she specifically torpedoed McCain?
MR. MARTIN: By bolstering Obama with this business about “I checked the birth certificate and it’s legit.” They were legitimizing what? That it existed? Well, no one had ever denied that there was a birth certificate in existence, so it was kind of a back-door legitimization of Obama without ever having been tested through a press conference or any cross-examination.
SHARON: Do you think Governor Lingle went on Rabbi Boteach‘s show to beat you to the punch after you filed your new lawsuit?
MR. MARTIN: I think that’s exactly what happened. Clearly, I have a whole bunch of networks in Hawaii, and these networks are growing. We facetiously call ourselves Hawaii 5-0, but people have gotten to see where we’ve continued investigating this case and building leads and we’ve continued connecting the little synapses there, and she doesn’t know whom we know, but it’s a small town, as people always tell me, and she certainly knows that we’re out there talking to people, and we’re getting closer.
Once again, and if you’ve seen the KITV coverage, the governor comes out two days and is on this rabbi’s show, and out of the blue, she gets into the issue of the birth certificate. Well, any time the birth certificate is mentioned, it benefits those who question it, because it shows that those who support Obama have to answer, and the more they tell lies, the more people demand the truth. So I was just stunned when I heard she’d gone on this radio show in New York City, and she’s now taking the credit for what benefited Obama.
MRS. RONDEAU: Aren’t the Hawaii officials who come out and make these statements just digging the hole deeper?
MR. MARTIN: Absolutely. I haven’t really thought it through, but we could conceivably now go back and move to reopen the original lawsuit as well. You see, it looks as if there is a conspiracy with each new twist, and they’re kind-of freaked out by me because I’m sure I was kind-of an oddity or a novelty…Well, let’s put it this way: when I landed in Honolulu on November 15, 2008, no investigative reporter had ever been there. All the media did was take these pictures of Obama half-naked running around the beach where they staged a display. But nobody had ever dug up records; nobody had interviewed people; nobody had looked at alternative theories or questions; it was all ignored.
So the first hint that there was something going on was when Obama treated me very seriously and he showed up in Honolulu all of a sudden.
MRS. RONDEAU: Did he show up while you were still there?
MR. MARTIN: Yes. And as I said in one of my press releases, as I’ve kept digging, and every time I go to Honolulu, new things happen. So now this time, she says, “Well, the guy keeps coming, like McGarrett, he’s always coming after us. She’s Wofat, and she knows that we know that something’s wrong. And all of a sudden, she pops out this latest thing and takes Fukino out of the line of fire. All of a sudden, Fukino now is a liar and is no longer, in a sense, the politically responsible person, because Lingle said, “I made her do it. I directed her to go and do this and then…” I don’t remember the exact words she used on the radio show, but she said something like, “I had her do it, and I told her to go get this and find out.” But why?
And of course, I raised the question, “What did Obama have on Lingle?”
MRS. RONDEAU: That’s my question, too.
MR. MARTIN: It could be something personal that he’s holding over her, which we’ll be writing about this coming week, I think. But the point is, there very possibly could have been blackmail there; “cover us, clear us, you better do something” – what she did doesn’t make sense at all, and then she tries to say, “Well, I was out there working hard for McCain,” and secretly she stabs him.
MRS. RONDEAU: Do you think Obama told Lingle to say something because you’re filing a new lawsuit?
MR. MARTIN: I don’t think it was Obama personally, but if now find out at some point that such-and-such attorney in Honolulu called the governor and said, “We have to have a meeting and I’ve got orders from the ‘Redeemer’ himself” or whatever, I think it could have gone down the chain of command to get her to do something. There was no need for it, and it was very clear the way it was orchestrated, that there couldn’t be any comeback. In other words, it’s over the weekend, everything’s closed, she issued it at 4:00 on Friday – nothing. And before you knew it, people were voting. And the answer is, she didn’t say “I did it.” It would have torn the whole country upside-down if she had admitted then that she was the instigator. Republicans would have been screaming.
MRS. RONDEAU: Because she was supposed to be one of them.
MR. MARTIN: That’s right. And they would have said, “What are you out there bolstering Obama for? Furthermore, it’s not clear what you’re bolstering.” The Leftmedia continued to try and do this “born in Hawaii” thing…and you see, where they’re trapped with Andy Martin, and of course, sometimes people will send me nasty emails saying, “Don’t attack other so-called ‘birthers,” is that Andy Martin has never been a “birther,” if you want to call me that, or “King of the Birthers,” as I’m now called in Hawaii, who challenged Obama’s birth in Hawaii. They can write off others for using phoney birth certificates from Kenya and stuff like that. I’ve never said anything like that. I have resolutely maintained that he was born in Hawaii, and that’s what freaks them out. Because I don’t believe for a moment any of the mumbo-jumbo.
As I said in one of my statements, possibly before you were added to the list, as the “King of the Birthers,” there are a lot of people out there in the Kingdom who don’t necessarily do things that I agree with, but that doesn’t make me any less a leader of this contradictory and amorphous movement. But I as the sort-of executive authority in this “kingdom” have resolutely said he was born here, and that’s what scares them. Because I have focused all of my attention on Hawaii. You don’t see me saying, “Andy’s leaving for Mombasa,” or “Here’s a picture of Andy on whatever they ride over there, camels or whatever it is, looking at the luau headquarters…” and I’ve got more to write. Just so you’ll know, there will be a story probably starting tomorrow, a series in which I dateline them “Honolulu” because although I’m not in Honolulu now, they arise from research there. I kept digging to connect all the dots there and only there, because that’s where the secret is.
The other thing you have to understand is that the “natural born” issue has nothing to do with Honolulu, because I say he was born here. I don’t have a problem with that. But that doesn’t make him natural born.
MRS. RONDEAU: I believe Attorney Leo Donofrio says the same thing.
MR. MARTIN: I was talking with someone today, and I can’t remember who it was, and I explained to him that the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid exactly what happened. They didn’t know what they were doing in the sense that they would predict this would happen, but intuitively that bizarre language that’s there which increases the test for that one office, that one person, was intended to prevent the creation of a drive-by president. Now here is Barack Obama the Kenyan, who came from Kenya, out there fornicating in Honolulu; he had no ties to this country, and he fornicates, and now he claims he has a president. And then he goes to Boston and he fornicates again, and then he goes back to Kenya. The man was never an American citizen; he was never even a “green-card” guy…I don’t know what they called it in the ’60s…it’s not even clear that he adjusted his status when he had the so-called “marriage.” As as I keep digging into this, I’m still fascinated by the personal attributes of this, because I don’t think Barack Obama is the father, and everything I found on this trip reinforces that, that it was all a ruse. It’s like two people who never met before saying that they got married, and here’s the baby…You might get away with it if I’m in Kenya where everything is handled by telegraph or jungle drum…this guy was paid to be a father!
MRS. RONDEAU: Do you have evidence that he was paid?
MR. MARTIN: I don’t. Not yet; I view it as circumstantial. In the law, you’re entitled to have a theory of the case. You’re entitled whether you’re a prosecutor or defense attorney. When you’re a prosecutor, you don’t always have the full case at the start of the investigation. Likewise, a defense attorney only has to cast reasonable doubt. It sure as heck is reasonable doubt that these people really weren’t husband and wife. What they’re saying is, “This is what we have as evidence ourselves, and you better believe that it’s real.” Well, no sentient being would believe any of the malarchy that the Obamas have put out. And now, in the middle of all this, Linda Lingle steps up and secretly instigates this bolstering of Obama’s birth information. I can only imagine that there would have been an explosion, (not a bomb, a political explosion) if on that Friday afternoon, Lingle had stepped out in front of the cameras and said, “I asked to have this done and it was done, and I’m issuing this statement in my own right.” Because Fukino says exactly the opposite, that no one told her to do it, so it looks as if it’s a clinical act and an administrative thing.
MRS. RONDEAU: Have you spoken to anyone in the governor’s office?
MR. MARTIN: No, some people like to go to the center and work out. I do the opposite. I start on the periphery and work in. The reason is that it’s a more traditional criminal type of investigation…because you don’t confront the bad guys until you have some evidence. So this is what’s getting to Lingle: that I keep going there, and I keep digging, and she knows that things are happening and people are talking, even on television. But she doesn’t know how much I know and what I know. And that’s what prompted this outburst, a confession, if you will, and as we call in the law, a spontaneous declaration. Because right up until the minute I went to the airport on Friday night, I was talking to people with knowledge of these matters, and one of them, I can’t tell you the name, but again, a very high person, said that there is nothing in the law about executive privilege, which is the basis of the denial of the latest filing, and she was in a position to know. So it’s all a continuing ruse to obstruct access. Their interpretation of the statute…there’s nothing in the statute that says you have to be a relative to have access to a document, No. 1. No. 2, there is a catch-all provision in that very same statute that says on terms that a court deems just. And No. 3, there’s no rational or reasonable way you can claim that writing a book or stories or investigating archival documents about the President of the United States isn’t a rational purpose.
If someone went there and wanted to see Joe McGeggy’s birth certificate, I would assume they’d clam up, because Joe is private, whomever he is. But this is the President of the United States, and people are going to be writing about him and writing books about him and wondering about who he is. And unlike everybody else, this is a man with an unknown birth. There’s no plaque anywhere in Hawaii that says “The Birthplace of Barack Obama.” Kapiolani doesn’t do that anymore; Queens doesn’t do it. There’s a whole lot of controversy about this Kaleanole Highway address that’s listed in the newspaper. That address is interesting for a number of reasons. One, it’s clear that no one maintains that Barack Obama ever lived there (the father), so why would that be the birth address? No. 2, while Stanley and Madelyn Dunham are linked to that address, the Kaleanole Highway address doesn’t have a plaque saying he was born here or this is where they brought him home. Now, can we really imagine that if the President of the United States had been born…I know Canton, OH is where William McKinley was born. You can certainly go to the street and address, and there’s a plaque. Nobody on 6085 Kaleanole Highway claims that he went home there. They’re claiming, in a sense, this is where he was born…even if you argue that he was delivered in a hospital, the claim is that this was the birth address of the family, but there’s no plaque there; nobody claims it.
MRS. RONDEAU: You would think that by now, someone would have proudly put up something.
MR. MARTIN: As I said, in any other place, the birth certificate would be in the Rotunda of the Capitol!
We decided to go look in Honolulu because no one else had ever looked, and I found that very suspicious. But we were still operating under the pressure of a presidential campaign and a deadline. Now as I’ve gone back each time and dug and connected the pieces, I’ve had more time. The longest trip I made was the one that just ended yesterday. So I’ve had a lot more time to do exactly what none of us has done. We rushed through this at the time, because we didn’t know what it meant; we didn’t know what its significance was. When I first heard the “natural born” thing, I hadn’t read that kind of stuff for 30 years. And I said, “Gee, I haven’t thought about it” when people asked me what it meant. I wasn’t focused on it. But the bottom line is now the mystery persists.
David Remick wrote this huge book, what is it…500 pages? The guy who is Obama’s publicity agent – it just came out a couple of weeks ago – the manager of The New Yorker magazine. He wrote a biography on Obama, and he doesn’t discuss any of this. What kind of biographer doesn’t get into the “birther” controversy?
MRS. RONDEAU: How can a writer produce a biography without mentioning the person’s birthplace?
MR. MARTIN: The other thing that scares them about me is that I have always focused laser-like on Hawaii. There are people who call him “Soetoro” and say he was adopted. There’s no evidence of that. You can get up and say Barry Obama’s real name is such-and-such, but there’s no evidence of it. Just because you marry a man doesn’t mean he adopts your children. And now they say, “Well, he registered there at the Catholic school in Jakarta.” There’s no way that Lolo Soetoro could change Barack Obama’s citizenship; there’s no evidence that he was ever adopted, nor do they claim that. Again, if there had been some court proceeding in Jakarta, don’t you think the Indonesians would have that decree: Here is the decree in which the anti-colonial court of Jakarta allowed Obama to be adopted?
MRS. RONDEAU: Then the Indonesians could claim him as a citizen.
MR. MARTIN: You can’t do that; you cannot denaturalize someone as a matter of American constitutional law.
MRS. RONDEAU: There has been a lot of controversy about that.
MR. MARTIN: You can’t change your son’s or daughter’s citizenship merely because you marry somebody and move to another country. It’s an act that has to be committed after majority. So again, I don’t ignore his life in Jakarta, which I think is very, very significant to the development of his psyche, but it has nothing to do with whether or not he’s eligible to be president.
MRS. RONDEAU: What about the school registration paper from Indonesia?
MR. MARTIN: People lie all the time, and you cannot filter everything through the normal prism of a mom and dad and two kids in Canton, OH. This was a very exotic thing that this woman did. It was the 1960s. Unlike the Obama fiasco in which she just stays in her own home somewhere or goes off to the University of Washington (which is another trail that has to be pursued), there’s no evidence that she ever left the country with this child. In the case of Lolo, she marries this guy and moves to Indonesia. There must not have been 100 or even 500 American women who moved to Indonesia in the 1960s. It wasn’t a very usual marriage track. You didn’t go to college looking to get your MRS by marrying some character from Indonesia. So I think probably what happened was they registered him and they said, “Well, Mr. Soetoro, why don’t you just put ‘Muslim’ and put you’re the father…it was a Catholic school; they could have put down his name as “Bobo,” and they still would have registered him, because Lolo was a local guy and it was a local school, and he just said whatever they asked him to say to put his kid in school.
MRS. RONDEAU: So where it said on the form: “Citizenship: Indonesian,” it didn’t mean anything?
MR. MARTIN: I don’t think it means anything. People do these things in families all the time.
In those days, if you were pregnant and asked who the father was, you could say, “None of your beeswax!” and that would have been the end of it. Today we have a much more mechanistic society because of support, family and custody issues. Today, when you’re in the hospital having a baby, they say, “Who’s the father? You don’t get benefits if you don’t disclose the father.”
That’s why one of the things you have to do when you run an investigation is figure out what’s important and what’s peripheral, separate the wheat from the chaff. And there again, this is what gives Linda Lingle the heebie-jeebies about me. I never pay any attention to Indonesia, because there wasn’t anything his mother could do or Lolo could do to take away his citizenship; that’s rubbish Now is it possible that there’s some suspicious passport there somewhere there? I don’t know. That’s another issue. It has nothing to do with his citizenship. In my case, ironically, the delicious twist is if I’m not the originator of the Frank Marshall Davis theory of paternity, I’m certainly the one who has pushed it the most vehemently. And that’s the only avenue by which Obama becomes legitimate as a president. Because Frank clearly was born in this country; he was clearly an American, and both parents were American citizens at the time of his birth.
But just think back to what I’m saying originally; what were the Founding Fathers thinking? In fact, I just downloaded some stuff and I’m going to be doing a whole lot of research to plow the furrow all over again to see if some pebble was missed. But what were the Founding Fathers thinking? Well, they had to be thinking something, or they would have said the same thing for president that they said for senator and congressman. They had no doubt in their minds that you didn’t have to be “natural born” to be a senator or congressman. Only one office and only that term. It’s the most basic canon of statutory or constitutional construction that a term which is included in addition is included for a purpose. It has to have meaning. The Constitution says that no one can be a senator unless they’re 30 years old and been a resident so many years, and it’s a little different for the House: 25 and such-and-such. But they pulled this “natural born” term out of the ether. The term had meaning then. The interesting thing is that I got back yesterday and I was watching the Anderson Cooper interview, and even the Colonel’s attorney, who is trying to focus attention on the real issues, I thought did a marginal-to-poor job of explaining what this “natural born” term is all about.
MRS. RONDEAU: I heard that from some of our readers.
MR. MARTIN: I think he understands that the birth certificate is actually interesting in its own right; that’s why I’m pursuing it, but it doesn’t remotely have anything to do with the “natural born” issue. And Anderson Cooper kept on saying, “Well, you don’t deny that he was born in Hawaii?” Well, guess what, Mr. Cooper? I don’t deny he was born in Hawaii. I’m a proponent of that theory myself. But that has nothing to do with whether he’s “natural born.” Because if the term meant what everybody else says it means, then it would have been unnecessary to insert it in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers knew how to distinguish between ordinary citizens and natural born citizens. And what were they worried about? It was this drive-by inseminator, Mr. Obama, who comes to Hawaii and inseminates this woman and then buggers off.
MRS. RONDEAU: If it was he.
MR. MARTIN: He’s the guy they’ve identified. We don’t have to question that. Clearly, they claim he’s the daddy. He’s the drive-by inseminator. He comes by, has sex with this girl, never lives with her, we’ve never seen a marriage certificate, although there is a divorce, and then he goes and he starts inseminating in Cambridge all over again. Now isn’t that what the Founding Fathers…, when you stop and think about it, you kind-of have to hit yourself on the forehead and say, “By golly, that’s what they were worried about!” Here’s a guy with no ties to the country; he comes in and rolls in the hay with some girl, and now they want to make this guy president! It’s almost the kind of battles that used to take place in Europe about the French kings and the English king and Mary, Queen of Scots, and whether you were legitimate or illegitimate. You see, they had revolutions over these things, and people were beheaded because kings would roll in the hay with people and the question arose about legitimacy. So the Founding Fathers put this safety valve in to say, look, “We’ll be practical with the Congress, but we want to be sure that the president is natural-born and that we know who his daddy is and his mommy is. We don’t want this stuff going on that we’ve seen in Europe. And that’s what I believe was the intention, because law professors have speculated, and I’m a law professor, and I’m telling you when they say, “There’s no reason for it,” how can you ignore the fundamental canon of construction that things are placed there for a purpose?
If you go back to Black’s Law Dictionary or Blackstone’s Chronicles, one of the things that exists is the principle that words are not inserted in a document by the drafter but that they have a meaning, particularly if it’s a heightened meaning. If it only says “natural born” for the president and it says nothing for senator and congressman, then you might say, “Well, maybe they wanted to be sure he was a citizen” and it didn’t really matter if he was the other kind of guy. But instead, they said “citizen” for senator and congressman, but “natural born.” So they meant to have a higher standard, a unique standard, and that’s where I part company with some of the others is not that I disagree with their constitutional analysis; I disagree with them that there’s any principal basis to go to court. Because our court system is independent; it is a different branch of government. It has developed its own rules and procedures. You can’t just go into court and say, “I’m Joe Smith, and I want you to do what I tell you. I think this is very important to me, and you better do what I say.”
Now what’s interesting is that when I do my news conference in New York on Tuesday, I am going to rattle a lot of cages, becasue I’m going to stick my nose in the Col. Lakin case in a way that no one has actually thought about it legally.
MRS. RONDEAU: Have they asked for your help?
MR. MARTIN: No. But that’s why I’m credible; I’m not involved. I’m not representing him; no one has paid me. But I have come up with the insight that no one else has. So the bottom line is that I think it’s probably going to happen on Tuesday. But the point is, when I stick my finger in the Lakin pie on Tuesday, it’s going to rattle a lot of cages in the Pentagon and in the White House.
MRS. RONDEAU: What time will that be?
MR. MARTIN: I don’t know yet, probably 1:00 p.m. or thereabouts.
MRS. RONDEAU: And of course it won’t be on mainstream television?
MR. MARTIN: Of course not. I’m just the leader of this ragamuffin band, The Birthers. They never put a guy on television who can actually explain it properly, because they don’t want it explained properly. They want people like Anderson Cooper who are going to say, “Well, he was born in Hawaii, wasn’t he?” Yes, he was, Anderson, but guess what? It has nothing to do with whether he is natural born! And after you hang up, you’ll say to yourself, “By golly, he’s right.” They knew what a citizen was because they defined it as a test for senator and congressman. If you add something extra, it means you did it intentionally. It wasn’t a slip of the typewriter; they didn’t exist!
MRS. RONDEAU: I had read that originally the Framers were simply going to put “citizen” for qualification for president.
MR. MARTIN: And the reason was they didn’t want a drive-by inseminator like Barack Obama. Someone with no ties. This man had no more ties to America than I do to Kenya if I went up there to be a student tomorrow. He shows up on a student visa for a year or two or whatever it was, and he rolls in the hay with this girl. Let’s assume that they’re telling the truth. Don’t assume that they’re lying. I’ve always said the natural born issue has nothing to do with the birth certificate. All you have to do is believe Obama; forget the paperwork. He says that’s his daddy. Now if that’s his daddy, that’s what they wanted to avoid. They wanted to avoid a guy who shows up in town from another country, has sex with a girl, and then this guy suddenly claims he’s the king, or in our case, the president. They did not want the president to have such a casual connection, because it was then subject to collusion. Count Holbitz could come here and have sex with a girl, and then go back and then she could pull the Joan of Arc and say, “He’s my son and he’s the president. He said he would be a German king or German leader.” That was where the fear was. Now they didn’t come out and say that because they were politicians.
Editor’s Note: Mr. Martin’s website can be found here.